Messages

1

Front Engine Dragsters / Re: Where to Start

« on: March 15, 2017, 11:09:55 AM »

Remember--- this is not the "Run what you brung" 60's,  Unless your plans are to run the car in the ally behind your house, there are rules and specs that you must adhere to if you plan to put it on the track- even if you just want to test and tune.
 To ask people on this board about clutch set ups and odd  configuations with recapped tyres is kind of useless, but tons of advice about Chevy's and PG's using racing slicks

Totally valid point. But by the sounds of things here some of you guys used to run clutches/reverser combos. Id certainly like to know more about the setup. Its really hard info to research.

 I guess i mean im not wanting to compete against any other cars or the likes.  Even if by the sounds of things a Glide is now the way to go. 

Any thoughts on clutching a lower powered direct drive N/A engine like i mentioned above?

2

Front Engine Dragsters / Re: Where to Start

« on: March 14, 2017, 07:44:43 PM »

oh man So much good info here! everything i hoped for an more from all you guys. Really appreciate it.

So just to spell it out - im looking to get into this to build something really really cool, even if that means buying a bare chassis thanks to the Advice on here, i'm not concerned about time or money. m'm well aware of the cost and effort. if i was affraid to spend money, i wouldnt be passionate about Pontiac engines lol.

i dont want to compete, i just want to run this thing at my local track, tune it, run some more, and crunch numbers on what i did and what helped, and what didn't. Just really get down to the nitty gritty stuff.

Its gotta look cool, and oldschool, as mentioned before i plan to just run an N/A Poncho mill to start and get a feel. 

Heres my next big question - Thank you to all above who chimed in on the Clutch vs Trans subject.  I definitely want to run a Clutch. I get really really excited thinking about running a shorter (180 inch or so) wheelbase with a clutch and some old pie crust slicks and pedaling the thing. Thats what excites me about the stuff you guys do, really fighting to handle a car is by far the most exciting thing to me.  Also appreciate the comment about having SAW in the steering. Great example thanks!

So - a couple of things, again thank you all for being so understanding, its really exciting and humbling to come in here and have all you guys freely commenting and helping out, i just cant get over how great of a feeling is, so heres where i'm at.

Running a clutch - obviously the limitations come in pretty quick with Engine RPM and power.
Say i build a 500hp Poncho engine, that falls over after 6k rpm.   A 4.10 rear @6k rpm puts me at 140mph - something like that would be more than acceptable for me to have fun and get a feel for everything.

But would 500hp/550 ftlbs (probably making around 400 ft lbs @ 3300) be enough to even get this thing out of the hole when not running a trans. Or was it only the big Nitro engines that could pull that hard off the line to make it worth while using a clutch.

I'd love to Pedal it - not too excited on a fancy slipper clutch but maybe i would enjoy trying to set that up.

You guys mention reversers - is that using the lenco reverse module like on the ST1200  and throwing it off the end of the bell housing, then calling it a day?

plenty more questions to come but i'm already learning a real lot.

Again not trying to compete or run against anyone else, just want to have a dragster that i can enjoy tinkering on, have a blast fighting it down the track, and learning a bunch of things along the way.

Thank you all Again LOVE The pictures!!

Cheers
Sam

3

Front Engine Dragsters / Re: Where to Start

« on: March 10, 2017, 07:23:15 PM »

Sam I would go around 180" to 200" as for stability.
I have driven 170mph 94" wheel base cars and had my hands full.

170 on a 94" !!! wow, that sounds like an absolute blast! surprised you could even fit your balls in that car, let alone the rest of you 

thanks for the info, the 180-200 range is good to know, i also seem to like the look of the shorter cars just by preference.

2.4 and 2.6 cost the same to SFI tag every 3 years

 My car runs 7.0Pro, its 193" wheelbase because if I wanted it longer I would have to buy 4 lengths of 1 1/4 for the front rails instead of 2 that I cut in half and where they came together--- that determind my wheelbase. ANY wheelbase car will handle great if it is built right, if it does not, then its junk.
 The general rule is the shorter the wheelbase, the wider the front axle. Short WB and a narrow front axle is when handling becomes an issue, I also build 100" nostalgia fuel altereds, that handle and go straight, but the front axle is wide.
 Back in the day cars were built on the floor with nothing but chaulk lines and  2 x 4's but things have changed since then. One could easily build a frame in a week because there was not that much tubing involved, With having to build with specs and all the tubing now required, it takes a week just to weld it. besides Im too old to be crawling on the floor.
Kit cars are great for the companys that provide them. They sell them to those people trying to save money by not having a shop do it, all is great and the entusiatm is high till they realize the amount of work it takes and the shortfalls of the kit. Not by any means am I putting you in this catogory, I dont know you or your qualifcations, Im going by what shows up at the swapmeet or at my front door asking for help. Kits provide the exact amount tubing for the build, some people need double the tubing to cover mistakes. Even with doing this for over 20+ years, I have a box of mistakes under the bench that I use for shorter parts

absolutely - appreciate the explination of how you came to that length, great to know that theres still some basic hot rodding theory of "its what i had" applied. Just from what you mentioned i already am noticing in pictures of Altereds and shorter wheel base vs wider front axle. learning so much already. Appreciate it.   Also understand what you're saying with all the unfinished and problematic builds.  Im well aware of how easy mistakes are made, and also how much ive learned from them. I reaplced a full quarter twice, on my GTO and then tought myself to do the lead work, just because i like to punish myself. Again the Journey for me is really really where my heart is at. Of course until i drive one of these things, then i'll probably want to do nothing but actually race.  Is there any kind of formula to length vs front axle width? or just a case of if its short, make it wide!  ?

Lots of discussion on that "slingshotdragster" chassis on this board--- most of it not very good

Thanks i did a few searches i found one topic that i read through - but definitly will do more reading and searching. Cheers

Call me if you are interested,
Jon 805-444-4489, cell 

An absolute pleasure talking with you Jon - Thank you!!

So my next question again just to get my head around things - and like anything no simple answer im sure. but im just eating up all the knowledge i can while you guys are willing to post stuff.

2 Questions -
Whats up with Engine Rake -  like some of the old fuelers i see had the engine at a serious rake - it looks cool as %#$ my only thoughts on it are trying to keep a lower center of gravity while having a really tall tire, forces the rear axle higher and instead of raising the engine on a straight plain, the rear has been tilted up to still run straight to the center section on the differential.   Most of thre newer feds i see built do not have any kind of rake to the engine - why did it go away?

Trans/Driveline - i see some of the older fuel cars look like they just ran a clutch/bellhousing then straight to the differential - was that it? and then it was just all gear ratio/rpm at the end of the day? Is that why a lot of the older Cars look like the engine is MUCH closer to the rear axle? The newer stuff seems like the engine sits much further down the car.

But i see a lot of newer builds and people using powerglides.  Did people used to run these cars just direct or am i seeing things wrong, was a transmission always used? Are all you guys now running transmissions? 

please answer as much or as little as anyone cars to, nobody likes a newbie but i just want to learn and understand, again there is nobody i know who touches this stuff.

Thank you all,
Cheers
Sam

4

Front Engine Dragsters / Re: Where to Start

« on: March 10, 2017, 11:03:13 AM »

Supercat -

Thank you! , i see what you're saying.   the little i could find seemed like everyone avoided original chassis at all costs.  Good to know you are able to keep it in the game with some upgrades!

would be a 4.25 stroke cast crank that would put me at 461. i have a few spare poncho blocks tucked away. I could run this crank in a 400 with the smaller mains than a 455 and should be more than enough for me to get a feel and understanding of what im doing. I even have a stock stroke 400 i could probably throw at it first time around. I like the thought of creeping up in CI and compression, and just seeing how things would improve. I'll probably say it again here im sure but i just love to geek out on numbers and theorizing.

Wow so cool to see a Buick! i already love the FED guys just because theres always a nice collective of the more odball engines, and of course lots of BOP stuff. Very cool!

Thanks!

Dreracecar -
Thanks! im starting to feel confident with my Tig skills that i can get a nice fitment and weld on some CM tubing But i do understand the merits of a Jig - i guess my mind was thinking that most of the old timers built theirs on a garage floor and were running a lot faster than id probably ever go.  Forgive my ignorance, i guess the whole building from a kit mindset gave me the assumption i would learn a real lot along the way and have an even better understanding of measurements and geometry and why things work and why things dont.

Thank you! im ordering the book today! interesting between 2.4 and 2.6 being so simple - but man i think id need a change of pants if i ever ran 7.50s 

Good tip on the sticker. Thank you!

Nostalgic371 -
The time thing is certainly not a problem, i spent 6 months (weekends only due to my job) scratch building headers for my GTO, i spent more money and time of course than buying a 450 dollar set that would do fine. But for me, the fun comes from time spent in the garage, listening to music hanging with my dog and just turning a wrench or cutting some tubing. for me the journey of the build is certainly more rewarding than the finished product.  I'm really thinking talking to a shop is a great idea at this point. Thank you!

Masracingtd1167 -
Thanks, another good point, as obviously all you guys here "Get" what im trying to do.


So - thank you all again - a huge help already.  Its hard to find info or help about this stuff. I'm 35 years old, and absolutely zero of my friends are interested in cars or engine building, and its really hard to find like minded people who i could bounce ideas and learn from.

I did stumble across these guys and liked the idea that everything is already tacked on a Jig - would this be an adviseable route? http://www.slingshotdragsters.com/kits.html

That said, would anyone know of a Chassis builder in Nor Cal? i like the idea of getting something maybe quite bare but still to my size (i'm 6'1 190).  I am located in Sonoma county. Sears Point is my local track.  I think finding someone close by i could chat with, who also "gets it" would be great.  Again, for me personally, its gotta be cool. I know i could already buy one of the many local rear engine dragsters complete ready to race off Craigslist and save time and money. But thats not for me, even if i never ran as fast as anything i could buy. Its just gotta cool, a little more period correct and just fun to create. These things were absolute pieces of Art as far as im concerned.

Lastly i know its probably a much larger question than can be answered in a few sentances. But as far as wheelbase. Where do i start, where do i go.  Obviously, the shorter the gnarlier the thing must be when running quick. But again i know nothing about this stuff, is there a standard length that most of you guys run, or does it depend on power and what you're trying to achieve, wheres a good starting point for someone who knows nothing about this, and never driven one?  Apologies again this is probably a horrible question to  expect a simple answer for. But im just trying to start somewhere.

Thank you all again.
Cheers
Sam!

Thank you all again, i can't say how excited i am just to hear from you guys. Appreciate it all

5

Front Engine Dragsters / Where to Start

« on: March 08, 2017, 11:26:37 AM »

Hey Guys - i did some searching and couldnt really find much specific to my question.

Looking at getting into building a fed.  Im a hot rodder who's built and restorted a couple Muscle cars, Pontiacs mostly and a Mopar project about to get underway.  Build my own engines and trannys, do all my own welding and fabrication and just starting to dabble in machine work.

My first goal would be to build my own from a chassis kit, and run an N/A budget iron headed Pontiac stroker. I have all the engine parts laying around no sweat.

I'm not looking to go so fast i could time travel just yet.  Just want to get into the hobby and learn and understand, then go from there, and most importantly have fun building and tuning the car. Also looking forward to attempting to build the Sheet metal skins from scratch as i love that kind of stuff.

Where do i go from here, i see a few chassis kits around, while i undesrstand the regulations have changed and so have what is now a certifiable chassis but who makes the most period correct appearing  chassis?

forgive me fro the newb questions, but hoping to start buying end of htis year and building through next summer.   Just want to learn and have fun building something cool. 

Cheers
Sam