FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum
Drag Racing Discussions => Front Engine Dragsters => Topic started by: FEDNV on January 26, 2015, 07:54:57 AM
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Since I am redoing everything on my car and running alcohol I have decided to not put my radiator back in the car. I was planning on filling the block with water but was wondering if just using block off plates for the water pump is fine or if I should use something like this http://www.jegs.com/i/Dedenbear/302/WH2/10002/-1?parentProductId=1418208 and a remote water pump to just circulate water?
While running alcohol I have never run my water pump until after a pass as it is fine during the burnout and staging and reaches about 160-180 and about 200 after the pass. I also warm the car up and heat up the oil in the pits before staging.
I also got a new oil pan that has a pan heater.
thanks
Scott
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Are you running a blower???
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I run a pump and radiator in the dragster.
If I had to do over I would mount the radiator pump and fan in the trailer in the pits and run quick disconnect hoses from the trailer to the engine when return to the pits to cool the engine down for the next round.
I have seen that setup work and it works well.
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If you are towed to the line and towed back to the pits after the run you should be fine dry. Lots of cars run water in the block and heads with no pump and it steams out as a direct loss system, this will reduce hot spots but I never liked it. Glenns thought on the trailer system would be great if you are making rounds.
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I do not run a blower just N/A.
I was told by the guy that does my heads not to run it dry as it will cause hot spots.
I was still going to run an overflow tank off of the normal spot on neck filler if that makes any difference.
I am towed to the line and towed back to the pits. I run NE1 so I normally have some time between rounds for cool down.
I have an open trailer so no way I could do that radiator deal (hard enough to carry all my crap now) but I guess I could always drain it and refill with cool fresh water if needed between rounds.
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but I guess I could always drain it and refill with cool fresh water if needed between rounds.
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I wouldn't do that, as head gaskets and such may not like the thermal shock. In other hand, this may not be too different from the stationary radiator on a trailer...
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With the stationary radiator in the trailer there would be water in the block.
With the setup that I saw he was using air hoses as his quick connect/disconnect (small diameter).
With the small diameter hoses and the long length of hoses the thermo shock would be quite mild.
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Iron or alu heads??? I run a waterpump (River Rat---fuel pump extention--cam driven) on a blown alky deal (heads only) and then I know people that dont and they run fine dry. Heard the Hot Spot story before, never paid attention to it when running injected and was never a problem. There is a NE-1 page on FB , talk to the racers on there
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I would not change it. If it was working before why change it? Too many variables when doing such a change. You will be spending more time changing things than what you will gain. I tried this on a D/ED in the 70's and ended up putting it all back on. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Iron or alu heads??? I run a waterpump (River Rat---fuel pump extention--cam driven) on a blown alky deal (heads only) and then I know people that dont and they run fine dry. Heard the Hot Spot story before, never paid attention to it when running injected and was never a problem. There is a NE-1 page on FB , talk to the racers on there
I have been running the river rat pump for 10+ years on my blown Alky sbc
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I was planning a similar thing this year with my junk. I was planning on eliminating the radiator an looping the water pump lines so i can keep the w/p running and not kill the temp but keep water flowing. We'll see...
Tony
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I run aluminum heads and I have already had an exhaust port crack and fixed so I want to put water in it.
Tony that is a great idea for just looping the line on the water pump. I might give that a try as I already have all the parts to do that.
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Here is the River Rat pump on my car
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You can see my reservoir tank mounted to the cylinder head with water running through the cylinder heads and tank only I run solid copper head gaskets with no water ports
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Same system I have been running for 20 years now
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BEAUTIFUL PAINT SCHEME!!
LOVE IT Show more pix--
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Currently I run water in the block. I read a post about the engine making more power wet as opposed to dry. In the past I have run my water pump and looped around and had a heater core just to cool it down between rounds, when I bracket raced an older car. My engine builder wants water in it as well.
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Currently I run water in the block. I read a post about the engine making more power wet as opposed to dry. In the past I have run my water pump and looped around and had a heater core just to cool it down between rounds, when I bracket raced an older car. My engine builder wants water in it as well.
I started a thread that eventually got into the subject. http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php?topic=312.msg1340#msg1340
As for me , I would never put a radiator in a alky burning FED. I run a Dart 230 iron head and a LIL M block fully filled with no water.
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Dose that pump fit between the fuel pump and drive ?
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http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1510.0;attach=4082
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[/quote]Dose that pump fit between the fuel pump and drive ?
Look behind the fuel pump extension but yes it does
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As have said here and few other sites ,I have rub dry blocks with alky since 1986,not that I have raced non stop since then. I have run it as normal system and used some tuning tricks to cool motor on return road.Never had issue. Now running round robbin could be issue if not cooling engine by running touch rich at time. Yes you might have to change oi more often than some like but for me that not a big deal.
With my deal.Solid block and billet hads its not even a option so know few tuning tricks will be a must.
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Its the side by side exhaust valves in a SBC that creates the problem that the cooling or temp stablazation is a benifit. Chrys with their top and bottom valve araingment in not affected and can run as billet.
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Its the side by side exhaust valves in a SBC that creates the problem that the cooling or temp stablazation is a benifit. Chrys with their top and bottom valve araingment in not affected and can run as billet.
What the man said... compounded by the fact that the elephant is a lot more meatier than the mouse.
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Its the side by side exhaust valves in a SBC that creates the problem that the cooling or temp stablazation is a benifit. Chrys with their top and bottom valve araingment in not affected and can run as billet.
Exactly I never started having problems eating head gaskets until I started to lean on it, 7.20's head gaskets running dry would last me 3-4 events once I started running 7.0-7teens the gaskets would go away pretty quick. Now running water in the heads I can get away with 6.60's-6.70's for a season on the same gaskets which for me is 40 or so passes.
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Good points on SBC exhaust setup.Never raced SBC well not on track,have had some bada-- smallblock street motors. I have run bbc and hemi dry w/o issue.
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For you guys running a water pump on your alky burners, do you have to run a pump because of the blower or alum heads or both ?
I would think the alum heads cool better/ faster than iron. All the fast all iron JrFuel teams don't run pumps, and most run water in the block and heads. The guys that run dry is because they have cracks in the heads so they leak water. As I stated in that 2011 post, alky burners run better hot, like we run 180°-200+° when staging, keeping in mind the engine will cool down some when that cool alky hits the engine when you go leave the start line. I know a JrFuel racer in Texas that had to replace his alum heads with iron heads because of the rules for the association he was racing with. He was unhappy his car was going to be heavier, but he did dyno his new iron heads, and was shocked he gained 50 HP with iron heads. Heat is energy and of course that's what we are trying to make is more energy. The alum heads are very good at cooling.
So, unless you are tooling around the pits driving your alky burning race car, I don't think you want to cool it. I would think you would want to tow it back to the pits so you can "read" the plugs with-out a bunch of idle. we have the track staff give us a warning when they want us in the staging lanes, so we can warm-up our motors before pushing out. Again looking for 200° after the burn-out and staging. 160° if running dry. When we are getting ready for the finals, sometimes they are rushing us, so we just warm them up for a shorter period of time. I shoot for 180°+ in the pits reading my infared temp gun on the heads, but away from the magneto.
Keep in mind that old theory 100 lbs is worth a tenth. So Pete Robinson always said anything that doesn't float away when you take it off the car only adds weight to your race car. So how much does that radiator and pump weigh ?
Have fun drilling every thing in sight !
Jon
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I run an index so the ability to run the number is important.
I know that if I come to the line at 165 degrees and I have the right tune up for the air it will run 8.020 at 165 MPH
The water pump and radiator mean I can turn the vehicle around in about 10 minutes in the pitts (cool it down).
The pump radiator and water is a hold over from when I ran gas and drove back to the pitts.
I don't do that any more.
I could remove all that stuff but than I would have to relearn my tune up.
With me it is just a mater of choice.
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Glenn, the track wants 8.00 bracket racers in a 10 minute turn-a-round, WOW they are tuff on racers and their crews.
Jon
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Glenn, the track wants 8.00 bracket racers in a 10 minute turn-a-round, WOW they are tuff on racers and their crews.
Jon
I sorry, not what I meant, I have the ability to turn it around in 10 minutes, not a requirement.
Before running 8.00 index I ran ET Bracket which could be called that quick, the 8.0 index is no where near that fast, although after going rounds and getting late I have experienced tracks wanting you up very quickly for finial rounds.
Last year Gateway Motorsports Park really pushed us as it was late and a storm was coming and I was really happy to be able to turn it around quickly.
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Yes I know what you mean Glenn, when we have been in the finals, the track likes to run us before NTF, NFC so they are the last cars down the track. But we can handle a quick turn around with our crew, I down load RacePak, and look at it, and I look at the plugs, decide what tune-up changes, while Bud checks valves, makes jetting or timing changes, while our driver packs the chute, while other crew members drain puke tank, refuel, and put some air in the slicks, then because the motor is still warm we may just fire it up for a minute or two just to make it sounds right.
Sounds like FUN, right !
Jon