New Guy love FED but clueless and scaried

[Reebs]

Wideopen
My wife would never say no, she want me dead.
In all seriousness I'm looking for a roller money is tight but xxxx its always tight.

[wideopen231]

Ok

Now that you have gained knowledge,if using this site properly. You are ready to rock out.Go get you a FED and join the crazy folks.You know those who think that driving means more than letting button go and deciding when to lift .Easy enough on lifting its at 1321' or 661' feet depending on track.

[Reebs]

Anyone ever dealt with http://www.slingshotdragsters.com/kits.html Slingshot dragsters? What was your experience like is yes?

[GlennLever]

Anyone ever dealt with http://www.slingshotdragsters.com/kits.html Slingshot dragsters? What was your experience like is yes?

Keith will give you an ear full on these guys, ask him.

When I was doing the research to build mine I visited his shop and if you go to this link you will see the result.

Sling shot dragsters is Cen-Pen Speed Shop owned by John Worn

http://www.lever-family-racing.com/lever-family-racing-home/family-vehicles/2010-front-engine-dragster/2010-front-engine-dragster-shop-selection

[ricci32]

Dragster supply has a chassis and body with parts brand new never fully assembled for sale customer wanted to go a different direction . this is a fantastic buy call david beard at dragstersupply.com . 1-603 324-9496 you will be glad you did.

[masracingtd1167]

There was a guy at Englishtown last weekend with a Cen Penn chassis that did not pass cert . Somthing about the upright under the motor plate .I have seen some of David Beard's cars and they look really nice !

[dusterdave173]

My Cenpen passed NHRA cert in less than 10 minutes--passing is way more about the jackwagon doing the looking than the cars from what I have seen.
Say what you want I love my 200 inch Cenpen and it has been running and doing great!
Plenty of them running goood if in the hands of real racers. They are building 50 gassers to every FED right now--you guys need to embrace any that are being raced and quit with the BS about John--You don't like his cars? Buy a different one but --are there better ones ? Yes--There are better burgers than McDonalds but they sell a lot of burgers and the folks that eat them are happy--
New guy...give me a phone call 704 244 6649 and I will tell you about a half dozen Worm cars and the happy owners that are racing xxxx out of them SAFE and CERTIFIED!
Mossburg shotguns are not as good as a Browning but you can't tell that to all the dead deer and other game.
I get it--a few of you thought better and went a different way--you have cars you are happy with and feel like they are way better than Jons cars--OK  OK  I understand but I do not understand knocking anyone that wants to join your ranks--that sees some advantage for themselves in buying something other than what You think is the way to go.
The couple few on here have just about pissed me off on this subject.

Anyone that wants the truth about Cenpens call a man that has just about worn an engine out in one this season--  704 244 6649 or email me at jdk@ctc.net for a complete photo history of my build from scratch and what I learned and tips that will help you out. We are having safe fun in an NHRA certified safe car that is doing as good as any out there. I guess in the "glory days" alll those 80 -90 home made cars that showed up would not have met with your approval either.

You guys need MORE members not Less.

[Van]

OK Duster Dave
 I think about the same as you on this subject. Of the cars I've owned, the super trick ones always seem to be built on the minimum spec & prone to sagging & cracking. These never seem to have enough room to fit the combos I put together with out big issues. I now build my stuff over kill & with room for changes. Nobody has to like my stuff but the chassis inspector. I think the one big issue with Worm cars is they are usually sold incomplete & the low buck $$ guy trying to put it together is lacking experience & money to make it happen without trashing it. many just give up & blame it on the builder.

[rooman]

I will stay out of the argument on the "engineering"of John's cars because most people know my feelings (and that of a number of other builders) on that but remind anyone of the large number of people who have trouble getting him to return phone calls or reply to e-mails as to the status of their chassis or parts. You get what you pay for folks. As for the conception that his cars are cheaper than the opposition, try adding up all the items needed to build a complete car using his spread sheet and see how close the number is to getting a car from S &W, Dragster Supply etc.
  Van, any car that cracks and sags (even when built to the minimum spec) is either poorly engineered or not being hauled correctly. Both of Mark Vaught's cars have made a huge number of runs in the 7.0 class at 190 plus mph and the only time that I had to repair the frame was when the air bag supporting the chassis deflated on a trip home from Bakersfield to Indy. If your combo does not fit the chassis you started out with the wrong chassis. You are correct in that Worm's cars are usually being put together by guys without much (if any) experience and that makes it even more important that there is plenty of customer service available (and someone with the experience to provide it).
  Dave, a Cenpen will pass chassis cert anywhere as it has all the tubes required and they are all well above the minimum spec. The problem is that when the car is complete it becomes obvious that the "motor upright" is not in line with the motor plate which is what the spec intends. That means that the motor is not supported by the upright as intended. Worm gets away with this because his frames are .095 wall and as such do not sag or flex at that point. What that also means is that the motor plate does not act as a firewall between the engine and the cockpit in the (unlikely) event that the car does have an engine failure resulting in a fire. I have also seen several of his cars that do not have a belly pan under the cockpit. This is another rule requirement that is not addressed with the body package that comes from Worm and obviously some builders (and track tech inspectors) do not recognize this fact. The pedal mounting plate that he supplies does not comply with this rule although it does meet the one that specifies that a sub floor (or tubing) is required to keep the driver's feet off the belly pan.
  Although he has built and sold a lot of frames Worm has little real experience in running dragsters apart from his own car so he does not have the knowledge to really help any customer who has problems getting his car down the track and that shows in the fact that he builds the same basic car for everyone no matter what they plan to put in it.
  At the sportsman level that most people run at a Worm car will get the job done as evidenced by Dave's experience but there are lots of better options that will allow you to step if if you ever want to.

Roo

[H.G. Wells]

Roo, thank you for that well written post.

During my search for a new chassis I thought a bare welded frame would be the way to go. Since we bent my last car all I need to purchase is the chassis itself, (swapping all the hard parts over) There are a few out there that fit the style and budget. Then after digging a little deeper I found just what you said. The money is in the details. All the little bracketry for shifter, steering, pedals, tabs for everything else soon drive the price up on the budget chassis to the point where I could just write you or Frank a check and be about done. The "kits" add up the same if you have to pay someone to weld it.  I figured for the amount of money I have spent over the years having chassis shops weld those little bits, or make changes to my last car I could have bought a nice TIG machine and a bender. But I still would not have the engineering skills to build a GOOD car.

Now with that said my next build will start soon. I found someone local who has build a handful of FEDs and will allow me to help out in his shop and teach me how to weld and we will build it from scratch.  I have seen one of his cars that crashed and I know how he built the driver compartment that is a little overkill and still keep the nostalgic look that I want. I can build my own body and even with my limited welding ability will be able to hang any tabs and widgets after it leaves his shop. (I will buy my own small TIG welder)

And I want to thank you for all the questions you have answered on this board that have helped me determine what I want, and for all those questions I am about to ask that I have not even thought of yet!

 

[Reebs]

Glenn or Rooman
One of these days  I may have to drive to your house to talk. I'm so ignorant on FED I'm not sure the first question to ask. I will bring food and beer so in exchange for knowledge.

[Roger]

After reading several threads from the past and then this one, I’ve got to say that buying a complete used rolling chassis or even a complete running racecar will put you a whole lot closer to making passes down the track and at a whole lot less expense. Buy as much of a car as you can afford, keeping in mind your car is an investment of your dollars. Buying a quality used car that fits you and meets your needs will give you many seconds of pure joy (1/8 or 1/4 mile at a time) and can provide a good financial return on your investment should you decide to sell it (as long as you care for it properly and stay out of trouble). Couple of years ago I bought a nice running junior fuel car that was built in 2003 by a veteran chassis builder and then added a new set of tires, new rings & bearings, and a few small items. I could not have bought a new cylinder block, rods, crank, heads and injection like what came with the car for what I paid for the complete car. Just my thoughts:)

[H.G. Wells]

Roger, I believe you are correct.

I bought a used roller 15 years ago but it was an original 69/70 car. I did some updates and was still cheaper than a new one. Unfortunately the front was still old pipe and created problems. I see a lot of very cool old cars out there with way too many passes on them and too much flex and I am always afraid they are going to break. Just be aware of what you are buying and know that 40 year old pipe will have more fatigue than one that is 4 or 5 years old.

I could buy one that is a recent build and it would do everything I ever want it to do. I have recommended people do just that.  I am just at a point where I want to build something new and incorporate some things in it from the start instead of adding to a used build. As someone already said, there is just something cool about telling someone at the track that you built this chassis.
Any way you go, just be safe and get out there and do it, we are not getting any younger. I know I am not.

 

[dusterdave173]

I will stay out of the argument on the "engineering"of John's cars because most people know my feelings (and that of a number of other builders) on that but remind anyone of the large number of people who have trouble getting him to return phone calls or reply to e-mails as to the status of their chassis or parts. You get what you pay for folks. As for the conception that his cars are cheaper than the opposition, try adding up all the items needed to build a complete car using his spread sheet and see how close the number is to getting a car from S &W, Dragster Supply etc.
  Van, any car that cracks and sags (even when built to the minimum spec) is either poorly engineered or not being hauled correctly. Both of Mark Vaught's cars have made a huge number of runs in the 7.0 class at 190 plus mph and the only time that I had to repair the frame was when the air bag supporting the chassis deflated on a trip home from Bakersfield to Indy. If your combo does not fit the chassis you started out with the wrong chassis. You are correct in that Worm's cars are usually being put together by guys without much (if any) experience and that makes it even more important that there is plenty of customer service available (and someone with the experience to provide it).
  Dave, a Cenpen will pass chassis cert anywhere as it has all the tubes required and they are all well above the minimum spec. The problem is that when the car is complete it becomes obvious that the "motor upright" is not in line with the motor plate which is what the spec intends. That means that the motor is not supported by the upright as intended. Worm gets away with this because his frames are .095 wall and as such do not sag or flex at that point. What that also means is that the motor plate does not act as a firewall between the engine and the cockpit in the (unlikely) event that the car does have an engine failure resulting in a fire. I have also seen several of his cars that do not have a belly pan under the cockpit. This is another rule requirement that is not addressed with the body package that comes from Worm and obviously some builders (and track tech inspectors) do not recognize this fact. The pedal mounting plate that he supplies does not comply with this rule although it does meet the one that specifies that a sub floor (or tubing) is required to keep the driver's feet off the belly pan.
  Although he has built and sold a lot of frames Worm has little real experience in running dragsters apart from his own car so he does not have the knowledge to really help any customer who has problems getting his car down the track and that shows in the fact that he builds the same basic car for everyone no matter what they plan to put in it.
  At the sportsman level that most people run at a Worm car will get the job done as evidenced by Dave's experience but there are lots of better options that will allow you to step if if you ever want to.

Roo

I know that you are right--I know that if I started over I would go a different direction for sure! I know that the issues you point to are legit  I RESPECT you and your smarts/experience  It won't be long and I will have as many runs as John
My car started out as bare chassis--I somehow asked, guessed, and otherwise figured out what and how to get it done --I have a car that can show up at any decent track come out of the trailer and run three runs with nary a drop leaked, a sputter uttered, or issue of any kind--get next to me and I will lay a xxxx lap on you--not so fast a lap as my power is limited but I can lay down three that would make any bracket racer grin. It was not easy--and the big plus is I have over 20 years of hard core racing under my belt--that Saved me from the disaster that may befall a rookie that buys a Worm "Dream Kit" I do understand that!!
I am just saying that it can be done and not ALL of his chassis kits will sit forever.
In the words of Rodney King--can't we all just get along  I am smiling hope you all are too!!!!!

[rooman]

Dave,
         I have no beef with anyone who buys a Worm car/kit--at least they are planning to race rather than bitch about how much it costs and sit on the sideline. My issue is that he has been building the same car over and over without addressing any of the shortcomings. The first stuff that we did in Australia 50 years ago looks crude in hindsight but we learned from our mistakes and made things better the next time around.
  Admittedly we were not trying to make a living building those cars but by the same token there is really no cost involved in fixing most of the "issues" with the Cenpen car  at the source--when they are stacked up on the jig. John's cars look as good as anything out there in respect to the vintage feel but the detail work lets them down and again that is all based on making the build simple (read more profitable) from his point of view. I also question his commitment to building the best product when the one that I have in my shop at the moment has splices in all four front frame rails as he evidently did not have long enough sticks of tubing to make them one piece. Of course this was one of the "Giveaway" cars and he was probably trying to reduce his investment even though more than enough people paid $25 for a $6 T shirt to get in on the deal (and cover his costs).
 And on that subject his profit/cost/effort ratio is probably better than just about any other shop out there. Discounting the shortcuts he takes with his chassis, he lists a quick release steering wheel hub at $160 when you can get one from Strange for $83 and a butterfly is $140 compared with the Chassis Shop billet grip version at $88. Likewise spoke front wheels are $1199 while Jon at Hayden will sell you a pair for $1000. The pedal package from John is $150 (with questionable geometry on the brake side) and you can get a lightweight gas pedal from Neil and Parks for $45 and a Wilwood brake pedal/bracket for $73.42 from Jegs that will allow you to ditch the clunky bracket that he puts up alongside the bellhousing. Those are all retail prices available to anyone and I know how much less a builder pays if he is on jobber or wd pricing.

Sorry to keep harping on this deal but this guy is not the racer's friend as he professes to be--he is in it for the money and there are better options out there.

Roo