Drag Racing Discussions > Front Engine Dragsters

Down force and zoomies

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noslin:
These are the subjects that interest me with racing and trying to improve performance.  F1 has a lot of good information too.  i was researching different wing design for the vw i had as even though i raised the wing (engine cover actually) i still had rear lift at 160mph even as heavy as it was.  you could see it in the ride height sensor i had on the shock.

anyways, i'd like to stick cannards on my ride as i think it helps with appearance but i have been told they really dont work till over 200 mph.  but when you look at some of the F1 designs or basic premise on the kind of downforce they get i wonder if you could do a design to get downforce at a lesser speed so it is worth while to put them on other then astetic points. 

you look at TF wings (modern wings) and they follow this principle for design somewhat.  its basically just up side down wing.  think of a jet when you take off, there the main wing, the flap and then there is another little one past the flap.    i wonder for slower speeds then 200 if putting another smaller wing above the last one would create some downforce for >200mph


im getting ready to fab up some headers, ill use 45 deg for angle.  i was wondering what angle to set them at. 

ty
dean

wideopen231:
Noslin I think best way to see effects of zoomies or canards would be data recording and watching tire slippage. I have been told FED's need down force added  little before 200 mark. Sometimes it takes very little to make big difference. I know on our TA/FC we added a 5/8" lip at 15* to rear deck and car went from hunting arou nd at finish line to being on rails and straight as arrow. If car looses speed with canard or wing then odds are too much attack angle and excessive drag. I know the wing I had on my TA/D had 400 lbs at negative 2* and went up from there.It also went up in drag and drag jumped big time compared to down force after 8* attack.

I have front canards on fed and they are set for 1*.One they look cool IMO,two they should help stabilize front end on top end w/o much drag. I have car setup for rear canards in case needed. I have three settings.2,4 and 7 degrees. I also have lot of aero trick pieces on drawing board that I want to try later. Have been told pointless,but xxxx trying new things is what I love about race car. A fed is probably the least aerodynamic  race car there is,which means lots of room to improve.

On header thing.I am thinking about build two more sets with big difference in angle and try some ABA test to see if any difference. That is after I get trailer to get car to track.LOL

jeff/21:
i ran cars with wings on the top, angle,placement, adding a wickerbill either 1" or 2"changed the handling big time  so canards must work but not as noticeable below 200 MPH but the angle of attack must be important and if they have side-boards to control the air stream and  stop spillage

aafa760:
Weed Sweepers Baby the real test of spectator hearing!

besides dumping all our bad juju infrontof the tires!!
Wow I am old!

JrFuel Hayden:
The reason I posted about zoomies, and conards is because of the photo of Curly's car, with a real sharp angle conards, even NTF don't have that much angle. I'm sure they slow the car down [ie hold the car back] , they look kool, but slow his car down. which is OK if he is running brakets and can't run run quicker than the bracket.
THe other thing I noticed are his collector pipes, which work good on gasoline, but all the info I've seen is no advantage burning alky, jusy heavier, and no down force.
Also the reasdon we put conards on our Heritage Jrfueler is I saw RPM spikes on my RacePak about half track, and looking at another teams RacePak at the same track / same lane and he had no RPM spikes on a good run, they had conards.  Indicating too much tire spin after the shift on our car. So we put low angle conard, with good size spill plates,  now we have better traction after the shift. And the low angle high spill plates don't seem slow the MPH. 

Just my 2 cents
Jon

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