Drag Racing Discussions > Front Engine Dragsters
Where to Start
swilling:
--- Quote from: Supercat on March 10, 2017, 11:37:37 AM ---Sam I would go around 180" to 200" as for stability.
I have driven 170mph 94" wheel base cars and had my hands full.
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170 on a 94" !!! wow, that sounds like an absolute blast! surprised you could even fit your balls in that car, let alone the rest of you ;D
thanks for the info, the 180-200 range is good to know, i also seem to like the look of the shorter cars just by preference.
--- Quote from: dreracecar on March 10, 2017, 12:23:51 PM ---2.4 and 2.6 cost the same to SFI tag every 3 years
My car runs 7.0Pro, its 193" wheelbase because if I wanted it longer I would have to buy 4 lengths of 1 1/4 for the front rails instead of 2 that I cut in half and where they came together--- that determind my wheelbase. ANY wheelbase car will handle great if it is built right, if it does not, then its junk.
The general rule is the shorter the wheelbase, the wider the front axle. Short WB and a narrow front axle is when handling becomes an issue, I also build 100" nostalgia fuel altereds, that handle and go straight, but the front axle is wide.
Back in the day cars were built on the floor with nothing but chaulk lines and 2 x 4's but things have changed since then. One could easily build a frame in a week because there was not that much tubing involved, With having to build with specs and all the tubing now required, it takes a week just to weld it. besides Im too old to be crawling on the floor.
Kit cars are great for the companys that provide them. They sell them to those people trying to save money by not having a shop do it, all is great and the entusiatm is high till they realize the amount of work it takes and the shortfalls of the kit. Not by any means am I putting you in this catogory, I dont know you or your qualifcations, Im going by what shows up at the swapmeet or at my front door asking for help. Kits provide the exact amount tubing for the build, some people need double the tubing to cover mistakes. Even with doing this for over 20+ years, I have a box of mistakes under the bench that I use for shorter parts
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absolutely - appreciate the explination of how you came to that length, great to know that theres still some basic hot rodding theory of "its what i had" applied. Just from what you mentioned i already am noticing in pictures of Altereds and shorter wheel base vs wider front axle. learning so much already. Appreciate it. Also understand what you're saying with all the unfinished and problematic builds. Im well aware of how easy mistakes are made, and also how much ive learned from them. I reaplced a full quarter twice, on my GTO and then tought myself to do the lead work, just because i like to punish myself. Again the Journey for me is really really where my heart is at. Of course until i drive one of these things, then i'll probably want to do nothing but actually race. Is there any kind of formula to length vs front axle width? or just a case of if its short, make it wide! ?
--- Quote from: dreracecar on March 10, 2017, 12:27:15 PM ---Lots of discussion on that "slingshotdragster" chassis on this board--- most of it not very good
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Thanks i did a few searches i found one topic that i read through - but definitly will do more reading and searching. Cheers
--- Quote from: JrFuel Hayden on March 10, 2017, 01:58:11 PM ---Call me if you are interested,
Jon 805-444-4489, cell
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An absolute pleasure talking with you Jon - Thank you!!
So my next question again just to get my head around things - and like anything no simple answer im sure. but im just eating up all the knowledge i can while you guys are willing to post stuff.
2 Questions -
Whats up with Engine Rake - like some of the old fuelers i see had the engine at a serious rake - it looks cool as %#$ my only thoughts on it are trying to keep a lower center of gravity while having a really tall tire, forces the rear axle higher and instead of raising the engine on a straight plain, the rear has been tilted up to still run straight to the center section on the differential. Most of thre newer feds i see built do not have any kind of rake to the engine - why did it go away?
Trans/Driveline - i see some of the older fuel cars look like they just ran a clutch/bellhousing then straight to the differential - was that it? and then it was just all gear ratio/rpm at the end of the day? Is that why a lot of the older Cars look like the engine is MUCH closer to the rear axle? The newer stuff seems like the engine sits much further down the car.
But i see a lot of newer builds and people using powerglides. Did people used to run these cars just direct or am i seeing things wrong, was a transmission always used? Are all you guys now running transmissions?
please answer as much or as little as anyone cars to, nobody likes a newbie but i just want to learn and understand, again there is nobody i know who touches this stuff.
Thank you all,
Cheers
Sam
noslin:
--- Quote from: swilling on March 10, 2017, 07:23:15 PM ---
please answer as much or as little as anyone cars to, nobody likes a newbie but i just want to learn and understand, again there is nobody i know who touches this stuff.
Thank you all,
Cheers
Sam
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some dont like newbies as they ask a lot of questions but that is what the forum is for right!!! questions make the forum grow, the community expand, and helps guys like me out who are in the same boat.
great questions your asking. i dont know the history either but it sure is interesting to learn about it. i can not believe what some guys drove back in the day. they have balls of steel haha.
ty
dean
dreracecar:
There is no science in rake. It is the relation of how far the motor is out in front of the rear end and the clearance of the front of the oil pan to the ground. The further back along the driveshaft center line the more angle the engine achieves,the further out the more of the angle is reduced.
A powerglide is the most common installed drivline in drag cars today,but never was considered in the early days
JrFuel Hayden:
Sam, I'm not a chassis builder, but I have been racing dragsters since 1962. Ya, I raced with a flag man, before the trees. My 1'st JrFueler was a short wheel base all iron 301ci SBC high gear car where I just rev it up pop the clutch and smoke the tires [ to keep the RPM up] to about 1/2 track, on nitro. We ran 8.0's and 191mph in 1964. It was the best of times racing every weekend at about 4 differnt tracks around Wisc.and Rockford Ill.
The reason for the extreme engine rakes, and motor placement so far back was all this was before VHT, Slipper clutches, sticky tires that helped make the slippers work.
Now the cars run allot quicker with VHT, better tires, and they adjust the chutches and timers to keep the engine in the RPM they want for max performance.
I know it doesn't make total sense to have the motor so far back [ = more traction] and then also tilt the motor down [ = less traction] but it's all about the combination.
It looks like the modern NTF cars have the motor out like 46 to 50", again to help keep the RPM in the range the motors is happy. Keep in mind the more we modify the motors, ie bigger flowing heads, big cams that make more power at higher RPM's the narrower the peak HP is happy.
A number of JRFuelers are running 50-54" out, mostly because they are making less torque but more HP, so they build them that way to keep the motor from pulling down out of the best RPM range.
That's why I think the chassis we talked about I think will work good for you, because with you big Pontiac, you will be making allot more torque, than my 48" out SBC on alky making 870HP that we run 7.0's at 188-9 MPH, with a powerglide, and a converter that stalls 8600 rpm. Most jrfuelers run the 31x12x15 Goodyear, only a couple run a 33x12x15, but I think it's because the motors are out too far and they don't have enough rear static weight so they need a bit more bite, but the down side to the 8lbs heavier per tire, takes more power to over come the rotating weight.
It's all about the combination that will work with your parts.
Jon
noslin:
--- Quote from: JrFuel Hayden on March 10, 2017, 09:40:45 PM ---Sam, I'm not a chassis builder, but I have been racing dragsters since 1962. Ya, I raced with a flag man, before the trees. My 1'st JrFueler was a short wheel base all iron 301ci SBC high gear car where I just rev it up pop the clutch and smoke the tires [ to keep the RPM up] to about 1/2 track, on nitro. We ran 8.0's and 191mph in 1964. It was the best of times racing every weekend at about 4 differnt tracks around Wisc.and Rockford Ill.
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Jon,
back in this era the trans was manual i take it? or was there no clutch at all. you were pushed and then popped in gear like shifting car without clutch (daily driver)?
ty
dean
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