Technical > Matt Shaff's Engine Shop

girdle vs 4 bolt caps on iron hemi block

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noslin:

--- Quote from: dreracecar on January 14, 2017, 07:42:30 AM ---There is a company that is making a new 392 block. Added material for the 4 bolt caps, added material on the decks and cylinder walls, all weak spots on a 60 year old block intended for racing. I haven't seen a side bolt girdle that was made for a iron block, only for the Donovan alu block

--- End quote ---

BBM is supposed to be making one, i found an online article about it but BBM website has no information on it. further, Lavoie and Adams was supposed to be making one years ago too. 

just as messing with the aircooled vw's.  you could prob put 500-550 hp to stock case for about a year if lucky till it started to fatigue. with big hp in vw you need to get the aftermarket case... about 2500-3500 depending on which one you got. i get the deal stock block can only handle so much... been there just not in this world. 

dean

dreracecar:
Forget about the L&A block, current NHRA big show cars will be nostalgic before that comes into play

LZ:
Hello Dean:
Say I was running through this on my hemi build.
Disclaimer..... just my opinion yours may differ.
 ;)
Having worked with Matt on putting new caps on old blocks, seeing some puked out whale blocks, doing some measuring , having the privilege of talking to some experienced hemi racers, and dealing with my anal jack hole mind.
Was not looking at leaning on it as hard as you plan.
Came to conclusion to build cap - girdle deal. Why?? 
- There is not a lot of meat in the block web for the outboard fasteners .
- feel the outboard added fastener really weakens the block web. Personally witness a block that was windowed that was filled and had added aftermarket caps. Really was an eye opener. Have photos can send ya when I get home if you want.
- in my mind you can't do enough to beef up bottom end. Stop the cap walk, support the crank, have margin to hold against any detonation. Try to keep those main bearings in good shape. Ba da be ba da ba.
- my opinion is the girdle is a fantastic way to help that stock bottom but ain't enough for what you plan.

Back to what I had planed if it's of any help.
Build all the caps out of 7075 all the way across. The back one will require some extra work due to seal. I was not going to have to worry about the pump mount as was going to run external. Fab up side supports to lock caps. Wasn't definite yet to either pin skirt - caps or dado skirt pcs. Use stock pan bolt tapped holes. Create plane for a pan.
Fab up a 417 like pan. The size worked good and you could get pan gaskets easy.

Love old hemi,s, but you pay a price $ (time) to run this old stuff and is very commendable. You are really leaning on this.
Just saying and wish you well bruddah  8)
Luke

dreracecar:
And after all that work you are still dealing with a 60yr old block. If you are lucky to have a machine shop at your personal disposal, fine, if not and have to pay for all that plus normal block prep, you are about $2 shy of what a premium used Donovan goes for

LZ:

--- Quote from: dreracecar on January 15, 2017, 11:24:32 AM ---And after all that work you are still dealing with a 60yr old block. If you are lucky to have a machine shop at your personal disposal, fine, if not and have to pay for all that plus normal block prep, you are about $2 shy of what a premium used Donovan goes for

--- End quote ---

Absolutely Bruce
I could justify it as I was building it for myself ,don't know what Deans situation is. It's not really a ton of work so much as measuring and set up.
He wants to use a vintage hemi and as such of course it will be more work. As mentioned no aftermarket hemi block available.
I admire people for the work and resourcefulness to make these old combinations go down the track. Were not the old days were a team would just go to the junkyard and pick up another 392. As such .
Dean did you ever see the Ross racing engines dragster? They run an Oldsmobile.  He was running the old whatever olds ( not up on olds so pardon me) did a bucnch of work to get the old block to live.  Last I heard is that he ended up machining a new billet block under I think same old cylinder heads.
Google rosss racing engines I think in Ohio . 
I'm sorry for any long winded responses Dean. I was going down this road and it hit me especially when you brought this up. As had much thought into this.  :o
Luke

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