Spool size on a Crower IR injection.

[dreracecar]

Again, without posting pics its hard to decern issues. the enderle and hilborn cube style BV run the same spool for all types of fuel with the only difference being the idle slot or ramp for fuel at Idle (leak) when you get into the "K" style BV is spool is bigger because the fuel transfer goes to 2 outlet ports.
What flow numbers did you get with the pump?
Are the nozzles crower or hilborn? and do they still have the tiny screens in them? if so could they be plugged with crap?
You also mentioned the spark was good, but what type is it--- magneto or electronic
Trying to figure where you are getting the 4psi number w/ .050 main,  main jet does not come into play until off idle, the secondary Idle (@2#) leans the pump at idle and you fine tune that transision with the link. As soon as the the butterflys open the secondary circut closes off.
when you say the cyls dont run right, is that stationary or does it happen down track and where does it start to go wonkers

[Sidewinder]

Ok here are the resault
First we widen the spool slot and rounded off the ramp. This helped some, but we didn't get get the respons we where looking for. So we changed the approtch, focusing on the air, to get more vacume. This unit came from a fuel injection shop in the US, as was resently serviced. But the butterflies was not seated right and a little off the sync, left and right side. After this was fixed, the engine started to work a little better. Still a little too much system pressure, making it very nervous on the leakdown. We consentrated to keep the Leakdown around 26-30%. The vacume was still too veak, but this is due to the extreme cam profile, with over 320 degrees of duration and 112 degrees of lobe seperation.
We desided to plug the air bleed holes in the nozzles, and that was the trick, bang spot on
We ended up with this set-up before calling in the day;
Around 28% leakdown
Main bypass was set to open at 4 psi with a #105 pill. (a tad to lean, so we will try a #95 pill next)
Idle bypass (Secondary) set to open at 14 psi with a #140 pil. (We will try to put inn a smaller pill, or shimming it to open a little later as it leans out a little too much goin of the throttle from WOT to off)

All this done stationally, the Altered has not been on the track, so we need to se what the respons is under load.

Hope this made any sence? Bruce ?

Thanks for the input guys

[denverflatheader]

Kjell - pleased to read you making progress.  Your change to main bypass from .050 to .105 pill makes sense to me.  My 6 cylinder has Hilborn stack injection and the nozzles have air bleed holes, with Hilborn 150A-0 pump on methanol needs 110-115 main pill.  My friend’s Crower 8H has nozzles with the air bleed holes too, he also ran port nozzles off a separate “out” on the BV.  Not sure why plugging the air bleed holes worked; good news to read.  When I read Bruce's responses, I thought he had the solution, either was a "petrol spool" or the nozzle screens were plugged, or both.  That’s big duration number in your camshaft.  Alan

[masracingtd1167]

Have you checked all of your throttle plates to see if some are closed all the way . It sure sounds like that is your problem . It takes some time to get them even and it must be done with the manifold on the motor . You need to get them all to close all the way and not bind when you open the throttle . Do one side at a time . I used to take strips of paper and loosen all of the butterfly screws and play around with the plates are nice and even and don't bind . Once you get this done you can set your plates around .003 . If you can borrow or buy a uni sync tool it would be a big help to balance your air flow to the motor . Before you go crazy changing things I think you should start there . You will never get it to idle right if you don't have your butterfly's balanced . I hope this will help with your problem ! Bill

[Sidewinder]

Bill, you are right that was one of the problems. We have ajusted the butterflys and opened the up a little.
The challenge is the camshaft, witch does not produce vacume at idle. To compensate for lack of vacume we have to plug the air bleed holes, similar to some blower engine set-ups. As said the engine sound and respond good now

Alan
This engine is not mine, I just have helped out some. We are not a big comunity of vintage drag racers, but growing steadily Check out www.svda.se under the menber section.
We usually attend two race's at Kjula Dragway, and this year we might be able to attend at one race at Tierp Arena, check it out, world class track, http://tierparena.com/

/Kjell

[KeithDyer]

I am guessing that you are looking to keep the original BV but what we have seen and done is put an Enderle BV on it.

I think all of the fuel racers did it back in the day so it would run right and tune easier.

Also for our upright Hilborn 4-port racers, Jim at Enderle has a butterfly shaft for one of their units that will fit the Hilborn 4-port with only minor slotting of the butterflies.  The splined shaft is superior!!

Take care, K

[dreracecar]

Still confused on how you are running your system or maybe we are using different terms for the componants.

 There are for the most part 3 returns for the system---
the first one we see is the idle bypass check/ pump saver. there is only a poppet inside the canister and is set at 2# to keep the BV full when the system is not opperating and when the injection is shut at high RPMs the the fuel pressure has somplace to go instead of slamming the fuel pump. A jet is not needed in the idle bypass because its done with the link between the BV and the throttle shaft. Opening and closing the idle slot it the bypass jet.
Second is the main bypass jet, it can be located in the BV or installed away from the BV on a return line. there is no pressure check poppet in the system, unless you use the fuel circuit within the BV and fuel return is thru the Idle bypass line, but at 2# the poppet is open and fuel coming thru the main runs unrestricted because there should not be another jet inside the the idle check can.
Third is the highspeed jet/return  that when the engine is running at speed and pump/fuel overcomes the amount of fuel the mainjet can bypass, at a pre-set pressure the poppet will open and thru another jet, will handle the overage of the main circuit. At idle this return does not even come close to opperating, only way to tune is by running the engine at speed and make adj by changing spring shims and return jet size.
 Since this is fuel injection and the fuel is delivered under forced pressure, engine vacuum plays no role in its delivery.
 For 60+ years, injection has be set up with aireated nozzles (blown engines have non-aireated on the down side of the blower because of manifold pressure) and why yours needs them plugged to run better at idle is making up for problems elsewhere and could create different issues once you run it on the track

  Can I ask who in the US set up the injection??? and did you get paperwork with it???

[wideopen231]

I have taken a  V file and widened the slot some on enderle's.May have missed it ann all of the reply's.Has pump been flowed?No experiance with crower BV's so not going to make statement about flow on them.I agree that if its lean then opening leakage will not hurt anything as long as its not going rich. As stated those BV's where made when 580 ci was unheard of. Seems someone would know flow of it at x% leakage.

[masracingtd1167]

You have something weird going on with that combo . I don't see why you would have to plug your air bleeds . Why don't you try to plug the secondary off I don't think you really need one at all . That should show you something . Not sure about the Enderly numbers on nozzles . Would that mean an orfice size of .038 . On my small block I use a nozzle with an .037 orfice and that is 394 cubes . If the nozzle is too small you will have higher pressure as you explained .Thats all I can think of right now . I don't think the cam is the issue . Is that duration at .050 or advertized ? 

[ricardo1967]

"...I don't think the cam is the issue. Is that duration at .050 or advertized? "

I'm with Bill, not a cam issue. Fuel is squirted here, not sucked.

[slingshot383]

Yes, barrel valve is the same, spool is different.  Something in your system isn't doing what it is supposed to.  You should be feeding the pump with a #12 or bigger line, #8 from pump to 3-way shutoff, #8 to the barrel valve.  Now, between the shutoff and barrel valve should be a tee with your main by-pass, unless it is built into the barrel valve (like an Enderle unit).  An Idle by-pass is a good thing, and it should be set to open at 18 - 20 psi.  If there isn't any blockages anywhere in your system, with a #50 main pill, you should be pig fat.  Check every line, distribution block, and fitting for an obstruction, and make sure that when you thing your shutoff is open, it really is!

[dreracecar]

You dont need all that Idle bypass spring pressure, its only open when the BF's are closed and with that pump there is not enough pressure to open it