Time for a rebuild?

[wideopen231]

Trash the fram crap.I would let my worst enemy use one just out of respect for the parts. Agree on brad penn oil.I like oberg filter ,easy to check and never had problem with them.

[jeff/21]

heat the oil before starting, it  would get milky when we used a carb couldn't get it lean enough idle-mid range and would go lean on top end  changed oil after every day. Have changed to   injection and will be running it on a dyno in the near future

[JrFuel Hayden]

Bill is right, if you need/ want to cook your oil between rounds, you are TOO rich. Also his comment about alky burns better with heat. It's not easy to get a SBC up to 180° +, we look for 200 when pulling into the stage lights. But we have found  my raised runner iron heads get hotter than non-RR heads. So lean the barrel valve to help build heat, and also lean [ bigger] the main jet. And it will also run better than your over rich combo.
About your oil deal, 1'st my SBC  oil pressure goes as low as 0, while in the shut down, it's not under any load.  Even Gene Adams [ MR Hemi] told me if the oil pressure didn't dive in shut down I had too much oil in the pan, the crank is getting into the oil and can slow you down 1 to 2 tenths.
I know a JrFuel racer that after getting a new oil pan and was told it was 11 qt pan couldn't qualify , but after he changed to 7 qts, he was low qualifier, and picked up over 2 tenths. I don't know any 10,000 rpm JrFueler running / needing a accumulator, whether using a dry or wet sump oil system.
When I 1'st became Bud Hammer's partner I bought a RacePak so i could tell what was going on. The 1'st thing we learned he was running too high of oil pressure, like 100#, and his bearings looked OK but cloudy, and after changing the pressure to 60, and going to Motul 10w40 blend oil the bearings looked so good even after 75 runs, when we put new rods in it we just reused the rod bearings. I have no milking of the oil, because of the leaner tune-up and the additives Motul has in their oil. A full Synhetic oil is not recommended for alky burning motors because alky is an ester based product and so is sythetic oil, it will delute too much.
Also I use an oil heater in the pan, but only before the 1'st start in the morning, while we check valve lash and spray assembly lube on the springs. The only racer I know that cooks the alky out between rounds is a top Alky funny car that is running a converter, and needs to get the bottom so rich to get the idle down so low to get the converter to work where he wants it. When he closes the butterflies to lower the idle, they get stuck. He drains the oil and cooks the oil on a stove. 
BTW, I have some flecks in my oil after each event, and even tho we don't really need to change the oil between events, we do I guess just because we are a bit of "old school".
As far as the groves in your cylinder walls, check your ring end gap, it could be getting tighter as your motor gets hotter. I have said this before, but if you run water you will make more power, because of better heat control, cylinder wall harmonic control and ring end gap control. I've heard as much as 20 more HP on a dyno.
Because I run a Dart raised cam iron block that has no filter, I use a Patterson remove micro filter, and we take the filter apart after every even looking for any signs of mis-use.
I hope this helps and answers some questions for you.

Jon Hansen, Hayden Wheels, and JrFuel Dragster Association

[gasserx]

Yes Jon, thanks a lot. (and to you other guys too).
I know i have been running way too rich, on purpose, because i was told it would be the safest to start with. However i have leaned it a couple of times on the main pill, and the oil looked much better on the last oilchange (except from the glitter). Its not clear, but looks more like oil than milk. I started with a .060 main, and ended up with .075 before i decided to not run the engine anymore.
Do you use a tempgun to measure correct temp, or do you have sensors connected to the Racepak so you can watch correct temp? Where do you measure temp...heads, block?
Funny how things changes, but i started this season with a clear vision of not using ANY kind of "wired" help,  everything has/had to be mechanical. But im not satisfied with a 9.0 @ 1/4mile, and i see the need for a certain amount of infomation from the engine for tuning and for it to last longer.

[JrFuel Hayden]

OK, the easy answer 1'st, Yes I use a temp gun [ always in my pocket] for looking at head temp shooting at the front of the head near the block [ get a temp gun with a red dot aiming] using it to also check track temp, tire temp after burn out [ some times our driver doers a weak burn-out and tire temp is only a few degrees higher than the track] each zoomie temps to check for injector balance during warm-up, head and tire temp after a run, and engine oil temp after run and warm-up [ with alum pan, I shoot the temp gun at the dark part of a sticker on the pan, temp gun will not see temps on alum, also to "see" temp on heads make sure they are painted a dark color]. Yes my RacePak can sensor these temps, but you can't see them until after the run when I load them onto my lap top after the run. When I'm looking for head temp as we are staging, I may hold back the driver [ with-out pissing off our competition] looking for my 180°+ head temp.
I log all this info for future use. I log 40 bits of data on my run sheets, including time slip info, weather data, car and engine info.
Now about tune-up look/ listen to what your engine wants. I look at each spark plug after each run looking for heat in the plug. I have found the NGK's are the easier to "read", because of the cad plated base [ Champion might work also but I have not tried them]. Look for burned off plating on the base, and ground strap [ burned off to the bend gives you the best/ conservative timing]. Old school is how many treads show heat, but you can be fooled by how many treads could be in the combustion camber. When I ran one of my SBC's in a Comp Elim car [ B/ND] they were sponsored by Autolite, but I found the plugs hard to read because they are nickle plated [ no discolor on base], but Autolite rep was very good at reading and giving advice when we raced National events. So lean it until you can see enough heat in the plugs, remember alky makes more power with heat. Non-raised runner SBC iron heads seem to want 36-38° of timing, with a mag. Jetting depends on fuel pump/ nozzles sizes, call Spud or Don Enriquez at Hilborn for advice.
Like I said I have alum/ copper flakes in the oil, but not to worry, as long as the flakes are not big. One of our JF racers had alum/ copper in his oil for 3 or 4 races and didn't race. What we finally found out the bits were coming from the sides of the bearing from scraping against the larger filet in the corners of the crank. It was fixed when we made the bearings narrower.
For what you are doing you don't need a data computer, but I can't imagine racing 7.00's at 190 mph with-out my RacePak. i do know some FED teams like their RPM computer.
Running your combo way rich is not good for your motor, oil delute , bad on bearings, ring seal, valve guide wear, besides not as much fun. 
Feel free to call me, 805-444-4489 if you want more info.
Jon

[gasserx]

Again, thanks a lot for your input Jon. This is great information for a rookie like me!!
I learned a bit about reading plugs from a very experienced guy on my second weekend out. He and is son is running a Alcohol dragster (wich i believe has had the european record for several years).
He told me the exact same thing as you, that NGK`s are easier to read (i had Autolite). They also indexed the plugs so that the gap pointed towards the exhaust valve on all plugs, that way they got more correct reading for comparing each plug. He also told me if i did changes to the pills, change at least one plug to get a new reading. He also teached me a little bit on fuel.
They lean until they get burned on the first or second thread, but as he said: do you want to go fast or go safe - fast can be expensive! (The next day they got a window in their block.. but he said no big deal).
Im running 38 of timing (Vertex mag), and it seems to be working good.
Waiting for my engine stand to get back from a friend before i remove crank and rods for inspection. Crossing my fingers all is good.

I am absolutely sure i would have been into the 8`s at the next race with everything i have learned since last time. Higher idle and perfect temp on engine sounds like the little extra i need to get there!

THIS IS FUN! 
Thanks again! 

[novadude66]

This is a great site with lots of valuable information!!! You can learn so much by reading all these posts!! With my set-up 427 cu. in. SBC, brodix aluminum heads and Enderle hat on a tunnel, I cant get my plugs to burn any of the plating off the base of the plug, am I too rich still? I run a .75 pill with an enderle 80A .5 pump that is new.

[JrFuel Hayden]

You are welcome Gass, it is a bit disappointing when I give, asked for advice, and they don't take my advice.
Is your alcohol dragster buddy racing NHRA Top Alcohol racing blown alky or injected nitro ? Blown alky is a different game. i agree with his advice to put one new plug in your motor with any tune-up change, matter-a-fact I suggest a new plug every round. As an example, Q-1 could be early in the morning, at 1200 DA, and Q-2 could be around noon, which could have a density altitude of 3000', well your tune-up just changed because you will have less good air going in your motor, it just got fatter.  So I suggest in Q-1 new plug in #1 cylinder , Q-2 new plug # 2, etc, that way it's a little easier to keep track where your new plugs are, plus after 8 runs [ ya I know that might be more than 2 events] you will have a new set of plugs in your motor with only a few runs. At $3.00 each it's not allot of money.
When I 1'st started helping my partner, Bud Hammer he was indexing plugs also, but that goal was to keep the high piston dome [ 16;1] from smashing the plug ground strap closed. When I was doing that I kept trying different plugs until the strap was between 10;00 and 2;00, without using plug washers, I think  the washers changes the heat range. But when I built my 1'st RR SBC we cut with a porting tool a "fire slot" in the dome, with the idea it would help the flame front go over the dome, but also not have to index the plugs. I always try to keep our car simple, less likely to have a crew member put the wrong plug in the wrong hole. Also when I ran my motor in a Comp elim [ B/ND] and he had help from the Autolite rep, I asked him now that I cut the fire slot, would it be any advantage to index the plugs 180° from what I was doing, he said Autolite tried that and the dyno test didn't show any difference. 
You are right it costs more to go fast , "speed cost money, how fast do you want to go ?" But I know allot of SBC injected alky racers running 8.60's,[NE-2] and 7.60's [NE-1] with bowtie blocks, OEM forged cranks,  off the shelf pistons, shifting at no higher than 8500.
Your Vertex is fine until you up your combustion pressure with higher compression and higher fuel flow, and even then you can have Spud hop-up your Vertex, or go to a Mallory Mag. I run 20 amp MSD, because i run around 16;1 compression, 220-230 fuel flow and 10,000 rpm.  Your 38° timing looks about right for a non-raised runner heads, but I have helped some JrFuel cars at the Bowling Green  Reunion when they had a ton of water grains in the air, you can't burn water, so we kept leaning the fuel and upping the timing to as high as 42° to try to get some heat in the plugs. He would have won, except he red-lighted. 

Jon

[JrFuel Hayden]

Dude66, what are you running for timing ? Are you using NGK plugs ? With no heat showing on your plugs try a .80 main, then a .85 etc until you get some heat. Also the more timing you run the more heat you'll get, but look at your plugs after each change, look for tiny black or silver spots on your plugs, they could be detonation = too far. You can also just fatten her up a bit to cut down on the detonation. AS I've said before look for ground strap discoloration, if you get a blue ring at the bend that's a good but safe timing.
I don't know what your alum heads want for timing, but the iron non-raised runner SBC motors like 36-38°, my iron RR SBC motor likes 29-32°, and I think some of the iron 14° heads like as low as 27-28°. It seems to depend on combustion shapes. So again listen, and look  to what your motor is telling you it wants.

Jon, 805-444-4489

[novadude66]

Hey Jon,, im running 38 degrees, with just a 6AL box,, NGK 5671-8 plugs

[JrFuel Hayden]

Dude, I assume you run on alky, what is your compression ratio ?
I wonder if your 6AL ign is not enough.
Ask some other racers that are running your alum heads, and burn alky what timing they run.

Jon

[gasserx]

They are running blown alky, but as far as i could understand they ran injected alky in earlier years.
I will take the advice of changing one plug for each run, smart way to keep track on things and as you said, i will always have "new" plugs.
The worst part now is that my racing season is over as i have already pulled the engine out, and i will do a complete teardown and rebuild. Last race here in Norway is just 1.5 week away, so im not going to make it. I have learned so many things now that i would like to try out, but i have to wait for the spring to come.
Well... at the next race my 12year old daughter is going to get here license for alky junior dragster, and that might take some of my time anyway.

I only have a stock 350 block, but forged crank and pistons, Brodix heads ... with my so far bad 60 foots at 1.300 (best so far), i really think i can push it way more when i get the correct tune in it.

You are welcome Gass, it is a bit disappointing when I give, asked for advice, and they don't take my advice.
Is your alcohol dragster buddy racing NHRA Top Alcohol racing blown alky or injected nitro ? Blown alky is a different game. i agree with his advice to put one new plug in your motor with any tune-up change, matter-a-fact I suggest a new plug every round. As an example, Q-1 could be early in the morning, at 1200 DA, and Q-2 could be around noon, which could have a density altitude of 3000', well your tune-up just changed because you will have less good air going in your motor, it just got fatter.  So I suggest in Q-1 new plug in #1 cylinder , Q-2 new plug # 2, etc, that way it's a little easier to keep track where your new plugs are, plus after 8 runs [ ya I know that might be more than 2 events] you will have a new set of plugs in your motor with only a few runs. At $3.00 each it's not allot of money.
When I 1'st started helping my partner, Bud Hammer he was indexing plugs also, but that goal was to keep the high piston dome [ 16;1] from smashing the plug ground strap closed. When I was doing that I kept trying different plugs until the strap was between 10;00 and 2;00, without using plug washers, I think  the washers changes the heat range. But when I built my 1'st RR SBC we cut with a porting tool a "fire slot" in the dome, with the idea it would help the flame front go over the dome, but also not have to index the plugs. I always try to keep our car simple, less likely to have a crew member put the wrong plug in the wrong hole. Also when I ran my motor in a Comp elim [ B/ND] and he had help from the Autolite rep, I asked him now that I cut the fire slot, would it be any advantage to index the plugs 180° from what I was doing, he said Autolite tried that and the dyno test didn't show any difference. 
You are right it costs more to go fast , "speed cost money, how fast do you want to go ?" But I know allot of SBC injected alky racers running 8.60's,[NE-2] and 7.60's [NE-1] with bowtie blocks, OEM forged cranks,  off the shelf pistons, shifting at no higher than 8500.
Your Vertex is fine until you up your combustion pressure with higher compression and higher fuel flow, and even then you can have Spud hop-up your Vertex, or go to a Mallory Mag. I run 20 amp MSD, because i run around 16;1 compression, 220-230 fuel flow and 10,000 rpm.  Your 38° timing looks about right for a non-raised runner heads, but I have helped some JrFuel cars at the Bowling Green  Reunion when they had a ton of water grains in the air, you can't burn water, so we kept leaning the fuel and upping the timing to as high as 42° to try to get some heat in the plugs. He would have won, except he red-lighted. 

Jon