Toluene and % Nitro

[msundstrom]

Spud,
I have been using 1 qt. toluene per 5 gallons of 30%, how much on 50%. Is there a formula?
Thanks
Mark

[Spud Miller]

 I've found that 1 quart is plenty in a 5 gallon jug regardless of nitro percentage. More won't really do much extra.

 Spud

[masracingtd1167]

I have a question Why do you mix that with Nitro ?

[Spud Miller]

 Ah, I should have 'splained

 Detonation control. Adding toluene to a nitro mix reduces/eliminates the tendency for it to explode before the spark happens. It's a stabilizer. If you run high compression (~13:1 or higher) and want to run any nitro at all, detonation can be a problem. Putting one quart of it in a 5 gallon jug of your mix generally eliminates the problem.

 Having said that, you can't go crazy with ignition timing and compression ratio and expect magic just because you have toluene it in. But it makes a huge difference.

 Spud

[mike cioci]

wow...did not know that

[mike cioci]

what will it do if I add it to alcohol

[Spud Miller]

 It won't do much for you. It doesn't act as a stabilizer on methanol to my knowledge.

 Nitromethane is shock sensitive...as pressure rises it'll decide to explode without a spark. The toluene helps stabilize its shock sensitivity. Makes it settle down and wait for the spark.

 Spud

[ricardo1967]

Thanks all you guys, I'm always learning interesting stuff here...

Just wondering, are the Top Fuel guys allowed to add toluene? Or their tuning is some much in control that they don't need or care for toluene? Does toluene hurt power?

[mike cioci]

how bout fire out the pipes...will toluene increase that if I add it to methanol

[Spud Miller]

 Top fuel guys can't run anything but the approved fuel. Toluene would fail a fuel check.

 Toluene doesn't seem to hurt power when replacing methanol.

 The Surfers (Top Fuel back in the 60's) knew about toluene. They ran very high percentages of nitro (compared to everyone else) and hardly ever worked on their car between rounds...no damage. Every one else was fixing their melted parts and they'd skate board around in the pits and watch them all work. It annoyed the xxxx out of everyone

 An interview I read years ago with one of them said someone on the team knew a chemist and got turned on to toluene as a way to stabilize the fuel. I think they were running 97% nitro and 3% toluene (or something like that) and had amazing results. That was one of their big secrets to success. Maybe someone on here knows of that interview and can point us to a link to read. That's where I learned about it and I've used it for years. Only in the last two years have I done away with toluene and methanol altogether (100% nitro). It always worked well for me!

 I don't think it'll make any more or less flames...

 Spud

[mike cioci]

thank you spud

[dreracecar]

Surfers also ran 6 to 1 CR
If you want more flame with nitro, cut the nitro with acetone

[JrFuel Hayden]

WOW, Spud 100% ? When we ran anything over 95% in our 1964-69 all iron 301 ci SBC JrFueler it was inconsistant with funny looking plugs. But then again my combo was abit different than most of the West Coast JrFuelers, with our 110 pump [ Kent Enderle  always told us that pump is too big for what you run] also we ran 55° on the crank [like the west coast guys] , but we had another 20° in the mag, and a 3.70 rear gear, when the West Coast guys were running 4.10's. It was difficult to push start.  We did win allot of races in the midwest, and ran 191 mph in our high gear 900 lb car in 1965.   
My hats off to you for running 100% of the good stuff !

Jon, JrFuel Dragster Association, and Hayden Wheels

[Spud Miller]

 Thanks Jon.

 It runs consistent low 6.80's @ 200 in the heat. Same plugs all weekend. All iron 392" small Chevy. Stack injected, Enderle 990 pump, 63 degrees, 2.91 rear gear (not a typo), powerglide. Weighs 1700 lbs at the starting line and spools up to 6800 RPM at the finish line. Haven't had the heads off in 6 years. Rings and bearings are now on their 8th and final season. Planning to go through it and put a new crank in it this winter.

 Spud

[digster]

All I can say is "Remarkable longevity" Spud!