Is it Monkey see Monkey do ?

[retroboy]

Howdy
Gee it's been quite here the last few weeks everyone must be busy racing. Way back when I ran a SBF powered FED with a 3 speed clutch auto.
In the early 1980's Powerglides were becoming the thing to use - "You'll be more consistent" they said "you'll go faster because of less parasitic losses" they said, so like others I jumped on to the band wagon and fitted a two speed PG up behind my Cleveland. It was no more consistent, it was no faster but it did turn my car into a boring ride overnight. Now 30 years on a lot of development has gone into the Powerglide and they can be build to handle big power. But why? Are people using 'glides because that's what your supposed to use? Monkey seen Monkey do.  I've seen discussion here about different ratio gear sets and the merit or other. Why not stick with a three speed and get the benefits of the lower first gear. I'm just waiting on our (Australian) summer so I can make my first passes in 26 years and I'm using a 3 speed. Remembering my comment about making the car a dull ride I would never consider a 2 speed. 
Cheers

[novacain]

  My FED had a 3 speed auto in it when I bought it and it works great. Only problem is that it likes to get the front in the air. I've been told to go to a 'glide to change the gear ratio to shave off some low end torque and keep the front end down. Going to add some weight up front and keep the 3 speed.

[Scott Krieger]

We run a turbo 400 with a trans brake. We can leave in first or second gear with the brake.
We bracket race in the no-electronics Pro class here at LVMS and leave in second gear to slow down the vehicle reaction time to go off the bottom bulb. Works great, two tenths slower with same MPH.

[wideopen231]

IMO its because there are more parts,more R&D,less weight which all and all adds up to better mouse trap. While they can be very costly when built for high hp levels glides are cheap option especailly when you shop around for use parts Personally would never think about 3 spd trans as option over glide. To top it off the design is just so dang simple and they can be built to handle 2500 hp.

[Van]

Yes It's monkey see Monkey do !!  Most all the glide guys will say whatever to make the Glide fall into the "PUT A CHEVY & A GLIDE" in everything mentality. Even if you don't run a Chevy, They will still say "put a glide in" I run a T400 in my FED.

[JrFuel Hayden]

I have often wondered why no one has built a FED to race A/D, B/D, B/ED, C/D or C/ED in Comp Elim, they all run 3 speeds and 13-15" wide tires, where as A/ND and B/ND [ JrFuel] are limited to 2 speeds and 12" tires, and run 6.76 to 7.0's @ 190 to 197 mph. it seems the FED is more efficient because the FED have more static weight over the rear end [ more bite] with the driver sitting behind the the slicks. A few N/D's run under one second 60' times, like .970's. The 12" tires have less rolling resistance than 14-15".
Are any of you guys running 3 speed's running close to 7.0's ?   

[Scott Krieger]

I would agree with the thinking that a FED has advantages over a RED in the comp ranks Jon. (got the tire yesterday . Thanks)
We won 74 Sports Nationals running a turbo 400 in our B/ED setting the then record in the final at 8.87 152.00

Daughters lil front motor car got the win in again this weekend in the Pro bracket at LVMS on Sunday for the good guy's.
Semi's on Saturday. .003 breakout, ahead .010 on the tree. taking 3'.5 at the strip. Good race.

Enjoy

[dreracecar]

Years ago Marv Ripes at A-1 transmission created a Chysler 3-speed for those classes. It was modifyed to shorty PG dimentions and Chevy adapter. The benefit was that it offered many gear ratio packages.It held up just as well as the PG in those classes, but I think in those times, racers had a hard time chokeing down the $6,000 price tag

[dusterdave173]

The over running clutch ( sprag) on the output shaft of a 727 chrysler is the reason we all have to run shields--I raced them for over 25 years in door cars but I would quit racing if I had to run one in a dragster--yea they make a bolt in sprag--it is for stripped case repair on street cars and was adapted to drag trannys- if that sprag fails--the next run will turn the internal drums the engine speed times the rear gear ratio and KaBoom!!-A Glide is SAFE and there is a Ton of high quality parts for them that will stand about anything at a very reasonable cost--the 727 that will handle high HP and be as safe as possible is very high $$$$$ unit produced by a very few outfits  A&A Trans  Rick Allison in Indy is the mfg of most of the parts that other 727 gurus use --Rick is The Man on 727 development if one wants to go that direction a call to him would be a good idea. One of the most honest and fair gentlemen in the parts business.
I loves my Glide!!!!!

[JakeB23]

Human Society in general is "monkey see monkey do"

[Andy Carlson]

It was mentioned that Marv Ripes of A-1 transmissions created the 3-speed auto for the comp eliminator guys. There is actually more to this story.

Being a performance class, comp eliminator has had some serious efforts over the years and torque converter development was a major contributor to increased performance. Several different PG ratios were used to tailor the optimum set-ups. Marv Ripes, being a cerebral thinker, thought that many of the cars, particularly some of the small motor/heavier cars, could use an extra gear. Problem was, a turbo 350 or 400 was so heavy internally that what ever gains there were from better gearing was lost through the heavier intertia of the internal weight. Marv was friends with Mike Smith, a racer himself plus a transmission builder. Smith said that the Chrysler 904 3-speed TF was a very efficient and LIGHT transmission. It was first made in 1960 for the new slant six cylinder compact cars. By the mid-60s this trans had been made available for small blocks (Chrysler never had a 904 for a big block) and by the early 70s Chrysler supplied American motors with both 727 and 904 torqflites.

The AM trans used a passenger side starter, and the bellhousing diameter was more compact then the Chrysler models, making this easier for use on a Chevy. Mike Smith offered to make A-1 an AM cased 904 with mounting adapter for the Chevrolet bellhousing pattern. The trans worked well beyond expectations and Marv Ripes got an exclusive sales agreement from Mike Smith, who named his business Pro-Trans. In NHRA comp classes, this trans is called the "A-1 3-speed", though every one has been built by Pro-Trans.

Pro-Trans does a lot of trans building for NHRA Stock and Super Stock racers. Virtually all Mopar auto S/SS racers use the Pro-Trans 904/727. a special conversion of the 904 internals placed into a 727 case, thus getting around the NHRA's ban on transmission adapters, which isn't a problem with Small Block and Big block Chevys which have a shared bolt-pattern, whereas Chryslers use different patterns for the small and big blocks.

Pro-Trans has been building lots of Ford C4 and C6 transmissions with the 904 internals. The strength of these 904 derived transmissions is remarkable, as exemplified by all of the SS/AH '68  Cuda/Dart Hemi shootout auto equipped cars using the 904 in a 727 case; remember, this is a slant six auto.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

[rooman]

Andy,
        thanks for the background. I still wonder about the NHRA rules. It is OK to put any stick trans in a stock class car but they persist with this moronic rule for the autos. Likewise the no clutchless rule--everyone simply runs the motor until it hits the limiter and then tugs the lever--no left foot required.

Roo

[masracingtd1167]

Funny you should mention Pro Trans . I just took one apart for one of my friends . He said he knocked it into second gear in the lights by accident ! Of coarse this is the second time he has done this ! This time he broke the planetary's and wiped out the band !