Author Topic: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!  (Read 21059 times)

Offline fuel749

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Re: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2015, 08:27:18 AM »
Building a car the way you're talking can be done and is done all the time. Whether or not you can do it for $15K depends on you and your group of friends abilities. I have several customers doing just what you're talking about, racing "fun" cars. They might not be terribly fast with mild small blocks, but they always have a smile on their faces. A 7.50 car is fine, it might even be what keeps you from going hog wild and pricing yourself out of racing. There's plenty of guys who want to race and never go quicker than mid 8's. There's also more different than just the shoulder hoop diameter, allowing for a lighter chassis which will help make your budget small block propel your car to better E.T's.

If you can afford a few thousand dollars to get started and are disciplined enough to put away a few hundred dollars a month to buy parts every three months, you can get there. Starting with a good plan and not changing course will save you money in the long run.

The keys here are discipline and follow through.

 

Offline GlennLever

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Re: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2015, 08:49:55 AM »
Keep digging, you will do well, ask questions. There are some on this board that are a little intolerant of beginners, but we were all beginners at one point in time.
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Offline ricci32

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Re: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2015, 09:21:43 AM »
Contact David Beard at dragster supply sells great kit cars to complete cars and can work with any budget he is a great guy and you will be friends when done I own two of his cars . dragstersupply.com

Offline H.G. Wells

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Re: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2015, 10:04:25 AM »
My advice for what it is worth comes from my first car and what I am doing now for my second.  I knew I wanted a FED but that was about as far as I went. What you want to do with it class wise and ET makes a huge difference. And if you are like most of us you may just change your mind as you go.

I helped a local team that ran JR fuel and learned so much from them and other racers, and a large part of it was what not to do.

I bought a roller very cheap and very old. Paid someone to back half the car who was a very good welder but knew squat about drag cars. I got lucky and knew just enough to get a car done that was safe and not too ugly. My initial thought included a radiator, water pump, battery, and bracket racing. Then after getting involved with the JR fuel guys I went simple, light, and for the time fast (for me anyway). I built as much as I could in the way of small fabricated parts, but as I did not own a TIG or the know how to use it. Mild steel was never even a thought as you can get it done, but if you ever intend to go faster or resell it you are stuck. I certainly understand the thought of paying out small money several times as opposed to cutting one big check. If you start too bare it will nickle and dime you to death. My chassis came with a good 8 3/4 rear. $1000 later it had new guts in it and was usable to the power levels I wanted. I did not keep count of the money of the 3 years or so it took to finish, but I bet I was in it for $10k 13 years ago and the car was not competitive.  Lots of trades and deals with only the safety equipment purchased new.

Had a little on track accident and bent that one and parked it.

Fast forward to now.  I still cant TIG weld and have spent enough money with other shops to buy a nice welder and learn. I got lucky and ran into a local racer with a FED on a jig in his shop now and he offered to help me with a new one. I will use his bender, jig, and he will help with the welding. I will use all my old hard parts and just use his shop for the chassis itself. It is important to me that someone with experience weld this up as my life depends on it. I can handle all the little stuff like shifter bracket, body, etc.
For my situation a kit would be great, except I have the rear, and the front axle and I can buy just the tube and a few other pieces. While I love the fabrication there are a few parts that I will  buy ready made, like the motor plate, rear end uprights, and the uprights next to the motor that allow cables to pass through. (probably from Parks)

I admire you for wanting to start from scratch, but a kit or a roller would be a better start. And as harsh as the other advice sounded you really need to get out and learn more before you start. It gets real expensive to do it twice.

Good luck however you do it, keep asking questions.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 10:07:40 AM by H.G. Wells »
Racecar spelled backwards is racecaR

Offline MikenMpls

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Re: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2015, 06:12:03 PM »
The deals are out there and happen all the time. Have a pile of money saved up and get a better value. Building a car is a long term proposition. If you really want to learn race fabrication then (by all means) build. If you want to go to the track and race buy a complete used roller that only requires a powertrain or engine.
Sometimes the fabrication provides a way for you and your friends to become better acquainted and grow closer. I made better, closer and even some new friends building a car. It just takes a long time if you have the traditional responsibilities in your life. Good Luck!

Offline slingshot383

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Re: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2015, 03:54:04 AM »
Before you buy, you need to know your dimensions. put on a fire suit, helmet proper shoes, gloves, and proper neck brace,  with aid of a friend and a dinner plate, sit against a wall with your knees drawn up about half way and holding the dinner plate in front of you with your elbows just cocked a little and your shoulders flat against the wall.  Get measurements for helmet to floor, plate to wall, width of shoulders and back to center of knees.  These are your starting points for fitting a car to you.  You have to fit the car to run it or you will never be comfortable.
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Offline longm1958

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Re: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2015, 06:45:22 AM »
There has been a lot of good advise given here.
My experiences with building a car is its quite a bit more expensive. I went through buying parts and putting them on the shelf until I had enough to build something. That cost me seemingly triple what buying a roller would have cost and will get about 1/3 return when I sell it.
My advise is buy a roller or a turn key car. Look at the "for sale" section here. There are 6 on the 1st page. Maybe one should consider that there ARE 6 on the 1st page before jumping in. I didn't and 10 years down the road and I still have never taken the car to the track.
Mike L in Ga.

Offline dusterdave173

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Re: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2015, 08:32:48 AM »
I started with new tacked chassis bare--took 2 1/2 years--every friend I had chipping in his tallents, every dime i could scrape for 2 1/2 years--over $15k then you need trailer etc fire suit
Building my car was best thing I have ever done but--car worth lots less than $ spent  If i had built a legal class car would be worth every penny spent but this fun machine with limited appeal to the drag race market is not that way
Lots of folks Love a FED and will never race anything else--some make a few runs and decide no way not for me ( wimps :)  ) 
Buy a roller--drop in a CHEAP SBC and just try it--you mentioned you do not have time to crew etc so how will you have time to race? It takes HELP to run one of these--can't do it alone at the track--that is a big issue going forward
Without a dedicated dad, uncle, wife, etc it is hard
There is also limited events to run these--great for me I don't like to run every wk end--just run when I want to and weather is perfect
I would snag a roller--aim for 9.0 1/4 mile and you will be astonished how fast that is and how cheap it can be done  aiming for a 7.50 ride first time is fools errand IMO
asking price for every turn key car out there is $15k--they don't get that if they want it gone so....
There are LOTS of Cenpen chassis out there bought by dreamers and never touched--available tacked and ready to work on pretty darn cheap--they are safe and work OK and are easy to build out--they are wide in the seat so resale good --narrow older cars don't sell because the guys that have the funds will not fit

Tons of satisfaction building your car--Hard to Do and takes grit and way more $$$ than you can ever imagine
My $15K was after dozens of barter/trade/ flipping deals that saved me thousands so.....
I have always had a fascination with fast cars at the expense of more normal character development

Offline Van

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Re: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2015, 08:59:39 AM »
I built my car from scratch, My friend Keven helped. The complete build working one to two days a week on it, took one year almost to the day. The NHRA tech inspected it and tagged it for TOP FUEL  5.99 & faster. Total cost was $5,000 as a roller less the safety gear.

Offline wideopen231

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Re: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2015, 09:34:01 AM »
I will agree with Van on Cost.  I have right at 6500 in roller with  trans. I did look around for deals. Found a bunch of them mostly wheels ,tires and trans parts.  I will say get list of tubing needed and try to buy as much as possible in one order.For me its about 175 mile round trip to supplier for molly tubing. With tubing measure 3 times then cut,if in doubt allow little extra.

My build has taken longer to complete The main chassis went fairly quick.Getting stuff like New rear axles and other high ticket items did take a while.
Relecting obama is like shooting right foot because it did not hurt enough when you shot left foot

Offline Tim Jones

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Re: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2015, 10:20:23 AM »
Like others have said TAKE YOUR TIME, if you build from scratch and your pockets aren't full of money it's going to take awhile,  if someone offers advice you don't like hearing, put your feeling aside and think about why there are taking there time to offer it, all chassis guys aren't alike, That being said , after running a few of my own cars in the later 70's and working on fuel cars in the 80's and 90's, in 2011 I decided to get back into racing and have fun,,, but my build is an odd ball 58 style chassis powered by a ford flathead, with a 39 trans behind it, not many off the shelf stuff for this car,, I've added as much safety changes as I could think of with out changeing the general idea of the car, lots of tubeing added to the cockpit, I'm cheap when it comes to buying parts for the car, So I take my time, I've gotten lots of advice while building the car, i don't always take it but I atleast try to hear what they are getting at, I finally got to see the car run on it's own power last week, but thanks to a slipped coupler it was just a couple quick hits, plus my Grilfriend is driveing and has never done anything like this before , so it's going to be a slow process,, so take your time, Have fun , Here's a link to my build on the hamb , (Glenn didn't have this site when I started)   Tim Jones   http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/chassis-research-style-dragster-comp-coupe-build-flathead-powered.645702/

Offline jenrick

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Re: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2015, 05:55:30 PM »
Building a car the way you're talking can be done and is done all the time. Whether or not you can do it for $15K depends on you and your group of friends abilities. I have several customers doing just what you're talking about, racing "fun" cars. They might not be terribly fast with mild small blocks, but they always have a smile on their faces. A 7.50 car is fine, it might even be what keeps you from going hog wild and pricing yourself out of racing. There's plenty of guys who want to race and never go quicker than mid 8's. There's also more different than just the shoulder hoop diameter, allowing for a lighter chassis which will help make your budget small block propel your car to better E.T's.

If you can afford a few thousand dollars to get started and are disciplined enough to put away a few hundred dollars a month to buy parts every three months, you can get there. Starting with a good plan and not changing course will save you money in the long run.

The keys here are discipline and follow through.

You hit the nail on the head sir, this is all about having a good time at the strip.  I'm not in this to lay down a strip record or anything like that.

To those who are recommending a kit or roller, I'm pretty sure I'm going that route.  Again I'm a competent welder, but the cost of a good welder alone really cuts into any savings doing it myself would provide. 

Before you buy, you need to know your dimensions. put on a fire suit, helmet proper shoes, gloves, and proper neck brace,  with aid of a friend and a dinner plate, sit against a wall with your knees drawn up about half way and holding the dinner plate in front of you with your elbows just cocked a little and your shoulders flat against the wall.  Get measurements for helmet to floor, plate to wall, width of shoulders and back to center of knees.  These are your starting points for fitting a car to you.  You have to fit the car to run it or you will never be comfortable.

Excellent point, I shall do so.


Buy a roller--drop in a CHEAP SBC and just try it--you mentioned you do not have time to crew etc so how will you have time to race? It takes HELP to run one of these--can't do it alone at the track--that is a big issue going forward

Due to my work schedule and location making it out to any of the local dates is dang near impossible without taking time off from work.  While I can probably do so if I take vacation, I can't do that often enough to work on someone's crew usefully.  Having raced/crewed before (SCCA) I know how much of a commitment it takes to be an effective part of the machine versus just a guy who hangs out every once in a while.  A couple of my buddies from work are more than willing to wrench since we all work the same schedule.

I would snag a roller--aim for 9.0 1/4 mile and you will be astonished how fast that is and how cheap it can be done  aiming for a 7.50 ride first time is fools errand IMO

That's pretty much what I'm going for, I ordered the specs for 7.50 so I could overbuild versus being chassis limited later down the line potentially, but I'm certainly not planning on a 8 car with what I'm trying to do.

Honestly a stage 3 chassis from David Beard or something similar seems the way to go.

-Jenrick

Offline ricardo1967

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Re: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2015, 06:48:26 PM »
Like others have said TAKE YOUR TIME, if you build from scratch and your pockets aren't full of money it's going to take awhile,  if someone offers advice you don't like hearing, put your feeling aside and think about why there are taking there time to offer it, all chassis guys aren't alike, That being said , after running a few of my own cars in the later 70's and working on fuel cars in the 80's and 90's, in 2011 I decided to get back into racing and have fun,,, but my build is an odd ball 58 style chassis powered by a ford flathead, with a 39 trans behind it, not many off the shelf stuff for this car,, I've added as much safety changes as I could think of with out changeing the general idea of the car, lots of tubeing added to the cockpit, I'm cheap when it comes to buying parts for the car, So I take my time, I've gotten lots of advice while building the car, i don't always take it but I atleast try to hear what they are getting at, I finally got to see the car run on it's own power last week, but thanks to a slipped coupler it was just a couple quick hits, plus my Grilfriend is driveing and has never done anything like this before , so it's going to be a slow process,, so take your time, Have fun , Here's a link to my build on the hamb , (Glenn didn't have this site when I started)   Tim Jones   http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/chassis-research-style-dragster-comp-coupe-build-flathead-powered.645702/

Tim, very nice build thread!

Offline hotrod316

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Re: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2015, 06:01:16 AM »
if you build it yourself  i would go to the 6.0 cert. not the 7.50 just thoughts  :o

steve m.

Offline George

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Re: Step 1 for a FED: Planning!
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2015, 06:52:55 AM »
-Jenrick, where are you located?