Step 1 for a FED: Planning!

[jenrick]

Howdy, I'm just getting started with the concept of building or buying a FED and I'm looking at what advice I can about the whole process.  Combing through the forums here I see a constant thought, and that is plan what you want to do.  With that in mind here's what I'm looking at:

A non-blown gas powered (probably SBC or SBF) slingshot/rail/whatever-you-would-like-to-call-it FED that is raced just for fun

I am a trained welder (associate's degree in it from a tech college and some actual work in the field), but it has been about 15 years since I did any serious welding.  I changed careers and haven't really been back to it.  I can read blueprints, prep pipe, run a bead, etc.  I was quite good with a MIG gun, and tolerable with TIG.  At the moment I don't own a welder of any sort.

As far as car knowledge goes, I'm not the traditional hot rodder.  I've never built an engine from a bare block, and don't performance tune my cars.  I can work on my cars just fine, and basically so long as it's not a modern automatic transmission I fine doing my own work.  I enjoy working on my cars as well, I just liking driving them more than wrenching.  I've got a decent bit of track experience (road racing, not much oval) and I've professionally taught high performance driving for several years as part of my day job. 

The money tree grows very slowly, and produces little fruit currently.  I know that for a lot people getting a roller or even a turnkey turns out to be cheaper in the long run, but requires a lot more capital up front.  It does also get you to the strip a heck of a lot faster.

I'm going to order SFI specs for 7.5 and take a look through them.  Is it worth it to get the 6.0 specs instead?  I'm guessing I'd be in at least $1K to purchase the tubing, a manual bender, and a decent welder to build the frame.  Does that sound about right, for a mild steel frame?  If I can find a decent quality certified roller for not much more I'd go for that just for the time savings.

For an engine, would you guys recommend building off a bare block or would a donor engine be the way to go?  At this stage I'm just looking to get passes in and get comfortable with things before I worry too much about times, so as long as I'm able to get a little tire smoke I'm not worried about power or ET's.   

As far as powertrain goes I've seen a lot of recommendations for a powerglide.  Are there other options out there that will work for what I'm after?  I'm not against going with a powerglide, I'm just seeing what's out there.

Lastly can anyone recommend any books, videos, etc that I can peruse while I slowly get this going? 

Thanks!

-Jenrick

[dreracecar]

Buy a car , generaly .40 on the dollar and go racing tomorrow, by the time you work down your list it will be a couple years and could lose interest. Mild steel chassie are losers in the long run. SFI 2-4 (6.00) is the best spec out here to build to and the only difference is the bigger dia shoulder hoop.
To give you an idea what you are up against, couple weeks ago I put a dragster frame together and just tacked welded it. Now I have built many dragster frames, I have a  frame table with tooling fixtures to hold the major compoents and tubing saddles, full machine shop and tubing benders. It took ME 35 hrs to do this and this was just a 150" frame and no roll cage yet. And thats the easy part, its all the other stuff takes a lot more time.

[GlennLever]

I'm thinking.

http://www.lever-family-racing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Dragster-ad.pdf

[jenrick]

I'd love to be able to go turn key, but the starting capital isn't going to happen.  The attached flyer at $40K, is WAY out of my lump sum price range.   $15K would be the most I'd have any chance of doing, and that'd be getting several buddies in on things (which I'm working on doing anyway at least). 

dreracecar: Thanks for the break down on frame construction time.  That does help put things in perspective.

What is the general opinion of some of the chassis kits, or chassis builders?  I know I'll be looking at a $2K-$5K outlay, but I can probably make that happen.

-Jenrick

[wideopen231]

PM sent      Give me a call if like.

[LZ]

Hi Jenrick:
I am not worthy to say much but  can offer a little from my perspective. Theres so much to talk about but hitting a few things that pop to thought.
It always boils down to time and money . Everyone's different and what applies to you.

What I can say about buying a used car is you have to be very very careful. One: you  sometimes dont know what the car has been through, two: will it pass cert and or what does it need, three: will your combo fit. IE if you run a Ford ( please do) you have to watch for clearance around the oil filter. Some cars start narrowing up as soon as they pass Engine Plate.
In general if you look at a used car it would behoove you to know what your combo is going to be so you can see if car will work. Clutch pedal, engine out, width of chassis, Will you fit safely and legally, Where will your accessories mount. etc.
Dont settle to much set a standard and stick to it. Its your life you want to have fun and not hurt somebody.

Theres lots of chassis kits. It can get you with a chassis in the Garage fast and you can start the never ending to do list.

Also, This is a great board filled with smart people. Dont take it personal if somebody says something to you.  Good people will tell you what you need to hear not necessarily what you want to hear.
Good luck post your build
Luke

[retroboy]

For what it's worth if I was in your position I would by a new bare chassis from Rooman or Brian King and a non certifiable roller and use it as a donor
Cheers

[dreracecar]

Chassis kits just saves you time locating material and components, one still has to jig and fit everything

[wideopen231]

I understand the not being able to chunk down full cost in one shot. There is a lot to look at when doing ground up build.

 IMO building your own pays huge dividends. I sent you pm with phone number if you want I can give good idea of thing to dbl check plus a cpl don't do's.  Too much to type plus just easier to go over as much as possible .

If picking one thing ,well actually two. Jig and set of plans. Neil & Parks and S&W sell plans or with research you can do your own. might add a  copy of SFI spec for chassis you want.IMO going step to faster spec is not bad idea. Once you hve these its matter of getting tubing rearend husing and block wit alignment bar.

[jenrick]

Thanks for all the advice so far guys.  I'm inclined to go with either a tacked kit, or a fully welded chassis if I can't find a good roller. 

Obviously for a welded chassis I'm guessing I should make sure I get one that is already stickered, does anyone even make one that isn't?  For a roller, is that critical?  If it's stickered I know that it'll pass tech (well should at least), but would getting one that is just out of date normally be an issue?  How much stuff does SFI update/change regularly?

Obviously regardless of a chassis, kit, or roller, I'm guessing I should look for one that is already setup in general for what I'm looking at putting in it.  How big of a change is usually necessitated if it's setup for say a BBC vs a SBC?

Thanks,

-Jenrick

[JrFuel Hayden]

Jenrick, because I build front dragster wheels and I formed the Jr Fuel Dragster Association I talk to FED guys alot.
So as far as used dragsters for sale I know a guy in Oklahoma that had a rolling chassis w/o motor with sticker for $10k, just add motor and go racing. He raced it with SouthWest Jr Fuel Association in Tx and Ok, and SHRR with a blower. One of our JrFuel teams bought a complete car with an all iron 14° SBC with spares and trailer for $27k [ a super deal], the best car I know for sale is the fastest Jr "B" car and the lightest at 1355 lbs with driver and iron SBC, that has run 6.96, he wants $40k for everything, but I think $20k for chassis, maybe less now, it's in Calif. BTW you can't build it for that, much less buy the parts. Another current west coast JrFuel racer can put together from spare parts a chassis and iron SBC for $25k. And I know a past Comp Elim champion that just told me he would sell his complete race car, B/ND, Jr fuel "B" that has run 6.92 [ that's .640 under the index] with a 220lb driver, was runner-up at the 2015 Winternationals for $60k.
So of course it all depends on your budget and how fast you want to go and what series you plan on running.   

Call anytime 805-444-4489, cell
Jon Hansen Hayden wheels and JFDA 

[dreracecar]

Most quality builders will build a chassis that will pass cert, but since the certs are date sensitive they don't pre cert till the car is ready to  race in order to save the cost of the fees. In all honestly, you are very lacking of the basics of this endever and is imposable to learn this by posting questions on  chat rooms and getting various opinions. Use  your time and get with local team all the while building your bank. The knowledge of running is such an education in every facet of this  and the people around you will guide you so as not make bad moves.

[dusterdave173]

A Sticker and passing tech is TWO different animals
NHRA will grab your $$$ and slap a sticker on --it is all about the drivers space and does it meet the book specs for a bar here , a bar there , diameter and thickness etc SIMPLE
Passing tech at an NHRA event is a big kettle of fish that is all about the rest of the rule book includes drivers gear, and lots of details about the car
Thing is....It is more likely that you will run the car at regular old tracks and events that care nothing about tech in any form whatsoever--you will spend a lot of loot to pass NHRA, get licensed etc just to run say Bowling Green etc once a year
Around here 9 times out of ten no track cares or checks anything
Now...Your personal safety is #1 and that should be Job #1 with every decision you make--and..a legal car is worth way more $$ than a Scud with questionable everything but..
Getting a NHRA sticker is easy if you follow a few simple rules in the book and fork over the $$$$
Being Safe is a whole other deal--that sticker is a very small part of that total picture.

[dusterdave173]

Most quality builders will build a chassis that will pass cert, but since the certs are date sensitive they don't pre cert till the car is ready to  race in order to save the cost of the fees. In all honestly, you are very lacking of the basics of this endever and is imposable to learn this by posting questions on  chat rooms and getting various opinions. Use  your time and get with local team all the while building your bank. The knowledge of running is such an education in every facet of this  and the people around you will guide you so as not make bad moves.

I agree--Hang out, join a club, crew for free to learn---you will learn a ton FAST!
Without steady funds to donate to the deal for about two years you should just watch and save up $$
A half baked project is never ever worth but a small portion of what you have spent should you change your mind and bail

My wife dodged a cancer scare last week or you could have bought my new fresh unit for a deal!
Save up and be patient--wait for a killer deal and have $$ ready!

[jenrick]

While I would love to be able to crew on someone else's car family and work schedule make that pretty much impossible.  Also I'm quiet aware that I'm not as knowledgeable about running an FED as I would like to be, but that's why I'm here.  Beyond getting the SFI specs and NHRA rulebook, where else can I learn about things besides places like this?

For those who have offered advice I appreciate it immensely, and I'll keep digging to hopefully achieve my goal of running a FED.

-Jenrick