Lets talk head gaskets

[FEDNV]

So as I posted before my motor blew out the felpro 1057 gaskets I have been using without issue for years up till now.  It seems like the severe tire shake the car had could of contributed to the issue.  So my question is for a NA alcohol motor with pretty high compression (15:1) what is everyone using?  Of course I am looking at the mls style, specifically the Cometic brand, as well as possible copper choices like the SCE ICS series with the built in ring that does not need the block or heads cut.  I have read both good and bad on the ICS but mostly bad from blown or turbo charged motors and not NA.  My machinist is really concerned as we will probably be boring it out to 4.600 and the amount of material between the cylinders is getting pretty thin.  I do have an older Merlin II block that does not have the extra bosses for the extra head bolts in the lifter valley area.

Any experience and input is appreciated.

[ricardo1967]

Great topic, subscribed (I wished we could).

I had SCE copper gasket - standard type, not ICS -in my SBC 400. I'm a believer that the copper gasket does have benefits in our applications. But does anyone have a magic trick to make them liquid leak-free? (in all fairness, my block deck doess have some cracks common in the 400's). I got tired and put a Fel-Pro PN 1010 in it, so far so good. I had copper o'rings on the block, which I shaved when I ditched the SCE gaskets. I didn't know the ICS didn't require o'rings... it's probably OK for moderate HP, but I can't think how it would seal big HP.

If my decks had smoother finish I'd try a MLS gasket (Fel-Pro or Cometic). Any preference between the two?

[dusterdave173]

Copper leaks water ....best way I have found is spray couple coats of Hylomar spray  expensive like $60 a can expensive but it works --In normal drag cars a very low pressure radiator cap helps not sure how that works in dragster--MLS gaskets only work if surface is prepped with correct RA which is smooth compared to the old surface left by Storm Vulcan type surfacers--most shops these days have good modern surfacers that will produce correct RA finish--MLS on rough surface leaks worse than copper
I avoid copper unless it is blown application   MLS is the trick if surface is right
or...smear RTV around each water hole and rock on! Repeat as needed 

[masracingtd1167]

I have been using the Fel Pro mls gaskets on my small block with no issues . My son also uses the mls gaskets on his big block that is a 4.600  bore . He has sprayed it with a 500 shot of nitrous and has had no issues at all . I also don't think that tire shake can cause a head gasket failure . With an injected alcohol motor you need to be careful with that much compression that your dynamic compression is not too high ! A cam with an intake that closes too early can cause problems like you are having . Talk to your cam guy about it .Bill 

[dusterdave173]

I have been using the Fel Pro mls gaskets on my small block with no issues . My son also uses the mls gaskets on his big block that is a 4.600  bore . He has sprayed it with a 500 shot of nitrous and has had no issues at all . I also don't think that tire shake can cause a head gasket failure . With an injected alcohol motor you need to be careful with that much compression that your dynamic compression is not too high ! A cam with an intake that closes too early can cause problems like you are having . Talk to your cam guy about it .Bill

I agree   I have had tire shake almost knock the fillings out of my teeth so I know  it can do odd things but...
Hope you get it fixed and get back racing! Good Luck!

[ricardo1967]

Copper leaks water ....best way I have found is spray couple coats of Hylomar spray  expensive like $60 a can expensive but it works --In normal drag cars a very low pressure radiator cap helps not sure how that works in dragster--MLS gaskets only work if surface is prepped with correct RA which is smooth compared to the old surface left by Storm Vulcan type surfacers--most shops these days have good modern surfacers that will produce correct RA finish--MLS on rough surface leaks worse than copper
I avoid copper unless it is blown application   MLS is the trick if surface is right
or...smear RTV around each water hole and rock on! Repeat as needed 

Dave, I had sprayed them with K&W Copper Coat Gasket Sealer (http://scegaskets.com/product/sce-gaskets-part-number-g1612/, but it leaked (BTW, it was a pain to get it apart later!) I should try Hylomar spray next time, thanks for the tip.

[dusterdave173]

Copper Coat is almost always misunderstood--It is NOT a sealer--it was invented to spray steel shim head gaskets that were used in the way back days by many --it had the copper to aid in heat transfer
between gasket head and block
It is great for that but otherwise a mess IMO
Hylomar is what all the circle track guys use when they reuse a MLS gasket for 3-4 times Easy.
Good Luck!!--I am not aiming to be a know it all I just build several engines a week and run / dyno them and I raced my A$#% off for last 20 some years--I have screwed up about every way possible and the easy ways several times--just passing along if I think it will save you from one of my many mistakes.

[ricardo1967]

Copper Coat is almost always misunderstood--It is NOT a sealer--it was invented to spray steel shim head gaskets that were used in the way back days by many --it had the copper to aid in heat transfer
between gasket head and block
It is great for that but otherwise a mess IMO
Hylomar is what all the circle track guys use when they reuse a MLS gasket for 3-4 times Easy.
Good Luck!!--I am not aiming to be a know it all I just build several engines a week and run / dyno them and I raced my A$#% off for last 20 some years--I have screwed up about every way possible and the easy ways several times--just passing along if I think it will save you from one of my many mistakes.

Thank you Dave. I'm very appreciative for folks like you sharing your experience here.

[FEDNV]

I see JE Pistons now sells MLS head gaskets.  Anyone have any experience with them?  The machine shop I have my work done at is a JE dealer and they were pushing them.  After looking at what is available it looks like I will be going with MLS and from what I have been reading most guys really like the Cometic brand.

[masracingtd1167]

The Fel Pro MLS gaskets are very good You should have no problem with them !

[dusterdave173]

Fel Pro MLS are every bit as good as Cometic IMO  Cometic is the go to for different thickness and bore sizes--FelPro does not have as many choices is the only deal--price is about the same everywhere on either
You should Note;
The MLS gaskets have "tabs" sticking out at different places where they are rivited together--these can interfere with intakes, headers and everything else so don't be surprised--we bend them down if they are in the way after head  is on--I would NOT drill the rivets out for any reason--seems like lots of folks think that is an answer but NO!- don't do it
Overall MLS is first choice as long as surface prep is correct RA--Copper for blown but always with block or head o-ringed---a reviever groove is optional and usually not used as it is past the average shops skill or experience level to do it unless they are used to it--I always just o ring block deck and get on with it.