Author Topic: Fuel Injection setup  (Read 12289 times)

Ponti

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Fuel Injection setup
« on: February 14, 2015, 06:58:25 AM »
Hi Spud,

 I need some schooling, never done anything like this before so am out of my comfort zone. I have this setup so far for a 350ci SBC
 
 I am wanting to build a vintage looking mechanical FI Blower setup running a Magneto, running on methanol to go in a 140"ish WB slingshot. 

What do I need to look for and whats the best way to set it up, how do I work out sizes for pump and injectors.

Yes I know I'm missing the blower and intake.

Cheers
Andrew
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 08:06:38 AM by GlennLever »

Offline Spud Miller

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Re: Fuel Injection setup
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2015, 08:39:27 AM »
 Looks like a great project!

 The FIE web calculator would be a great way to poke at some ideas. You can sign up here:
http://www.fuelinjectionent.com/tuneup.php   It's free.

 Try some different scenarios of blower size, pulleys, nozzles, etc. You'll be able to see how much boost, fuel pressure, fuel volume etc. are required and it'll let you size things accordingly. It's a great way to narrow down what you're looking for quickly.

 Once you have a few things figured out, you could post your proposed setup here on the forum and ask experienced peers here for their input. Or you could call or email a fuel injection business (such as FIE) for help. Anything from a quick suggested starting point, a precision calculated tune-up, or a complete flowed setup can be had to help get you going.

 Have fun!
 Spud


Fuel Injection Enterprises, LLC
     Mechanical Injection
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     EFI Conversions

dreracecar

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Re: Fuel Injection setup
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2015, 09:24:33 AM »
Hope you have money,

 As a small block racer for over 25 years, its easier for a first timer to run a blown BBC because the stock parts are beefier than a SBC.

 Major area of concern with a small block is the crank snout because its small dia, short, and the hub retaining bolt is only 7/16 dia. What happens is the load the lower blower pully puts on the hub stresses it because the snout ends at the end of the timing cover and with the 2 keyways so close to the seal surface will split when the crank hub bolt begins to stretch.
  3 ways to fix this
1) Buy and aftermarket SBC crank that has a BBC snout which is larger in dia and a larger hub bolt
2) buy a lower hub/pulley support girdle as it supports the pulley on both sides to releive stress load
3) At minimum, ATI offers a front hub that has a SB bore and a BB seal dia which gives you extra material and will not split, just open the front cover(if the manf does not have one alrerady) to a BBC front seal.

A good set of aluminum rods is the next step, Some people have run steel rods, but they tend to beat on the crank harder because they dont absorb the compression shock like alu does. Also go with the longest rod you can on a stock stroke, I run 6.125 (6" is OK) because it keeps the rod angle down and straightens out the load on the rod beam.

Because of the alu rods you will need a small base circle roller cam for clearence as the assm. rotates. Make sure the cam is made from  tool steel billit material or it will break back by the #8 lobes.

For compression on alc. keep it around  10/10.5 (mines 10.2) and dont get all caught up in any fancy ring packages, I have been using Childs&Albert/Akerly&Childs "Dura-Moly" ring sets for years, simple and they work besides being a lot cheaper then the fancy ones.

If you dont have access to getting your heads O-ringed, Some people have been using the COMETIC shim gaskets, I havent as I prefer Copper.

The blower manifold you have is fine, just convert the pop-off to a burst panel

Speeds and ETs at 7.50 and 175mph a hooped up Vertex or even a fresh stock Vertex will work fine. Anything quicker or faster will need more amps and a FIE mag III fits the bill and fits in the stock possistion.

Dont go all crazy on the blower either, a standard opening 6/71 is more than plenty and will get you in enough trouble as is

Injection is just metered fuel and there are many options.  Size wise stay with a standard "BUG", it will flow more air then the blower can handle and run all the fuel thru the hat, down or port nozzles just mess everthing up at this point and are not needed. You wont need a hi-speed check valve system, so its just one feed line to the BV and one return out of the secondary back to the tank.

Fuel pump choices tend to stay with at minimum side for alc is the Enderle 80a or the Hilborn pg150, both flow around 6.5 gallons of fuel

Offline dusterdave173

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Re: Fuel Injection setup
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2015, 02:00:23 PM »
Great info Thanks DRE!!!
I am planning a blower 350 for fun--I have a block well prepped, new 6 in alum rods, new 3.48 crank, scored a good fuel pump that is right in line with what it will need--I was shopping for pistons and thought I should have lower compression ratio--Glad to see that a 10:1 will work--lot more pistons available for that--
I was looking at a new in box cam a pal has--262/270 at 050 640 ish  lift on a 112 900 base
I can get it dirt cheap --does it sound like it will work in mild 350?
I have all kinds of heads
Just want one to play around with--not going to lean on it
Have an old blower that Dad said he would redo for me--he worked on Detroits for years--going to run alky so need to know how to set it up for that--has some wear but decent overall
I was going to run the hub with big block diameter OD and sbc ID  my cover will take either seal
Any ideas on good starting point for boost appreciated

Been running my stack FI dry block is that going to work with blower motor

Thanks!!
I have always had a fascination with fast cars at the expense of more normal character development

dreracecar

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Re: Fuel Injection setup
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2015, 04:28:53 PM »
As long as the cam has a small base circle and is made out of tool steel, as far as specs of it, too many theorys by more qualified experts, Been running the same cam profile since the beginning and if you shoved $1000 in my face ,I still dont remember any of the specs,
Blower should be sent to sombody that does blowers, Hard anodize the case and rotors and strips and seals. No doubht  DAD can assemble one , just that for the first time should be done by someone that understands what goes on inside when these spin at 3 times the RPM those old Detroits did

Offline dusterdave173

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Re: Fuel Injection setup
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2015, 08:33:51 PM »
Really appreciate the help
I am loving my little stack job and having fun but just keep thinking about having a blower on one before I hang up my helmet for good.
We are lucky to have you helping--Thanks again
I have always had a fascination with fast cars at the expense of more normal character development

Ponti

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Re: Fuel Injection setup
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2015, 12:07:08 AM »
Thanks Spud and DRE

 Lots of help there.

Offline buickfed

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Re: Fuel Injection setup
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2015, 11:15:46 AM »
The blower manifold you have is fine, just convert the pop-off to a burst panel

what is the difference using these?

Offline GlennLever

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Re: Fuel Injection setup
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2015, 11:52:17 AM »
The blower manifold you have is fine, just convert the pop-off to a burst panel

what is the difference using these?

NHRA will not certify with pop off valve, you must have a burst panel
Glenn R. Lever
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dreracecar

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Re: Fuel Injection setup
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2015, 12:51:21 PM »
I pop-off can re-seal itself thus masking a problem, whereas a burst disc makes you look for the problem.

Offline buickfed

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Re: Fuel Injection setup
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2015, 05:40:50 PM »
got me searching for more info. so far I found burst panels for screw type s/c's. where do I find more info on this?

Offline GlennLever

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Re: Fuel Injection setup
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2015, 08:18:07 PM »
Glenn R. Lever
Rochester, New York 14617-2012
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Offline Paul New

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Re: Fuel Injection setup
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2015, 05:30:26 PM »
This is out of the latest rule book showing that it is required


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« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 05:31:50 AM by GlennLever »

Offline hotrod316

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Re: Fuel Injection setup
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2015, 07:07:50 AM »
i read it has the screw blowers must have the burst panel in the intake and one on the blower

dreracecar

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Re: Fuel Injection setup
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2015, 07:44:19 AM »
Its built into the case from the manuf.