Author Topic: The boys from Kansas are at it again  (Read 52871 times)

Offline JrFuel Hayden

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
    • View Profile
    • Hayden Enterprises Speciality Wheels
  • Your Best Time: 6.02, 236 mph, 1/4 in 1973 Div 3 TF Champ
  • Your Engine: SBC, Alky, 403 ci, Best 6.99 @ 190 & 409 Hemi
  • Your Track: Bakersfield
  • Your Vehicle: 225" FED NHRA Heritage Jr Fuel
Re: The boys from Kansas are at it again
« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2015, 06:25:17 PM »
Well Bill, the Alum head rule has been talked about for years. When the new-nostalgia JrFuel class was 1'st conceived they wanted rules to keep the cost down, so no nitro, and cast iron heads and blocks. Alum heads were more costly then.
The problem we are faced with about changing the rules is we already have a car count problem, and to ask some if not all of the current teams to buy heads, pistons, valve train, and maybe injectors would no doubt chase some of the current teams away. BTW do you know when burning injected alky, iron heads make more power than alum, and iron heads can be fixed, I've done it myself. There are a couple of A/ND, B/ND Comp teams that have talked to NHRA about allowing alum heads. So far they turned it down, you see unlike SWJFA Heritage is a NHRA series, and any change in Heritage rules would also apply to Comp, and vice-verse. One of the teams that lobbied NHRA about alum heads said since RHS was no longer making 14° heads is why they should allow alum heads. When they asked me what I thought, I said "so the main reason you want alum heads is because RHS is no longer making your iron heads right ? so then if you open that can of worms , then I can use alum heads on my Hemi, right ? because Chrysler hasn't made those heads since 1954, and he said "OH NO !   Be careful what you ask for.
I'm just trying to keep JrFuel alive and exciting as a class, with out asking the current teams to re-invent their combo and spend a bunch of money. When I have asked some     NE-1 [ 7.60 bracket] teams what do we need to change in order to have them race JrFuel, and they said JF takes too much time and money to race heads up, even with the Handi-caps and no break-out.
As other have said if you want more affordable FED racing, race brackets, NE-1, NE-2 etc of if you are near SHRA race their 1/8 mile brackets, where if your motor is kinda worn out, and not competitive, just add more nitro.   You see in bracket racing there is only one rule other than safety rules, "Don't go faster than the bracket". So you can burn nitro, and or a blower, etc. It drives me kinda crazy when I see what looks like a Brad Andersen Blown Alky hemi running 7.60's. talk about working hard [ on trying to slow it down to 7.60's]. 
So the real question is if we changed the rules so they are less restrictive and allow alum heads, WHO would build and race with us. Under the current plan and rules we are increasing the car count, I think mostly because we are having fun and enjoy helping each team run better.
There is so much talk about heads/ motors, and not enough talk about really using the motor combo you have by looking at your combo from the back of the block to the rear-end and tires.  Like change the converter to work better with your motor combo, and maybe change the 1'st gear in the trans, and change the rear gear, again so it allows your motor to work better, and change your tire size, you may be running slicks that are too big and not getting enough tire speed to keep the engine in the RPM range it's happy with.
Boy I guess I've gotten off the main topic.
So just think about what kind of racing you want and can afford to race.
BTW, I raced nitro JrFuel from 1963-68 in the MidWest, with all iron SBC, went 191 mph in 1964.

Jon
Jon C. Hansen

Hayden Wheels

Offline fuel749

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
    • View Profile
    • Dragster Supply
  • Your Track: New England Dragway
  • Your Vehicle: FED/Altered
Re: The boys from Kansas are at it again
« Reply #61 on: March 30, 2015, 05:48:59 AM »
Its not just the motor it is all the little things that make a car go fast and most guys just wont do it all.  I am pretty sure if our hemi was in several of the other cars out there it wouldn't be as fast.  It is the whole package.  Converter, Gear, Tire, Driver, Car, Wheels, wings, and every part at its maximum potential.  We try to help everyone to be faster but most just want easy answers, there is no easy way you have to do it all not just the big things.

Frank

People don't just want easy answers, they want easy CHEAP answers. Racing heads up will never be cheap. People are always trying to invent inexpensive heads up racing and it inevitably gets out of hand. The index classes may be the best bang for the buck.

dreracecar

  • Guest
Re: The boys from Kansas are at it again
« Reply #62 on: March 30, 2015, 08:18:02 AM »
Jon,
   You must remove "bracket" from your vocabulary--- NE classes and 7.0 are INDEX, I will repeat it again for the visually impared--- NE classes and 7.0 are INDEX.

   Bracket racing is where a group of cars not matched in potential but fit within a 1 or 2 second ET range or "bracket" and the tree is adjusted to compinsate for the slower car based on the ET potential each car has witch is posted on the window

  NE and 7.0 are run "Heads up" meaning the the tree is not handicapped for unevenly matched cars and both cars leave at the same time and the Target number/INDEX is/can be achived by both cars.

 Both style use a "breakout clause" meaning that if one goes below the number written on the window or quicker than the "Index" that run loses. In bracket racing that clause is to eliminate SANDBAGGING in order to get a handicap advantage with the tree, and in INDEX racing it is there to prevent cost from skyrocketing.

Offline Paul New

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 744
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 6.47 @ 214 MPH SBC
  • Your Engine: 387" SBC
  • Your Track: Woodburn Dragstrip
  • Your Vehicle: 2005 FED
Re: The boys from Kansas are at it again
« Reply #63 on: March 30, 2015, 09:50:12 AM »
Frank I applaud all your efforts to build the quickest possible car you can! I wish I had half your talent my car would be much quicker than it is. I am a fan of yours

Offline masracingtd1167

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1110
  • bill masiello Shelton Ct.
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 7.40's at 181 on motor 6.94 at 192 nitrous
  • Your Engine: 394 chevy
  • Your Track: Lebanon Valley Dragway
  • Your Vehicle: 2003 Neil and Parks
Re: The boys from Kansas are at it again
« Reply #64 on: March 30, 2015, 12:02:35 PM »
Jon Thanks for the explaination about the heads . My thought was that more guys would be willing to jump in your class with more liberal rules . I have a great interest in both Comp and Jr fuel and want to see both classes grow ! Bill

Offline JrFuel Hayden

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
    • View Profile
    • Hayden Enterprises Speciality Wheels
  • Your Best Time: 6.02, 236 mph, 1/4 in 1973 Div 3 TF Champ
  • Your Engine: SBC, Alky, 403 ci, Best 6.99 @ 190 & 409 Hemi
  • Your Track: Bakersfield
  • Your Vehicle: 225" FED NHRA Heritage Jr Fuel
Re: The boys from Kansas are at it again
« Reply #65 on: March 30, 2015, 01:05:04 PM »
Thanks Bill for your interest in comp and JrFuel racing. I'm uncertain that allowing alum heads would attract more teams, and I don't want the current Heritage JrFuel teams feeling they have to spend a bunch on a rule change. Also, let me repeat, "iron heads make more power than alum". An example came from a Texas racer bought/ built a set of iron heads when SWJFA changed their rules to come closer to Heritage rules, So the racer not happy he was going to add more weight, dyno tested his new iron heads, and was shocked to see he picked-up 50 hp over his alum heads. With no other changes, IE same valve sizes, port size and combustion size. OK, now you ask, HOW can that happen, alum cools better than iron, so you have more heat in your combustion cambers, and alky likes more heat, besides the fact that heat IS energy.  I try to get my heads up to 200° with water in the block and heads, while staging. You may have to lean your barrel valve [ and readjust your idle] to built good heat.
When I was looking at alum head options I looked for alum "Spec" heads to try to keep cost down, but only found heads that flowed less than our current iron heads. If we do allow alum heads, does that mean we could run the latest Gen Hemi heads ? Or AJR billet heads ?
So Bill, if your comp car can switch to iron heads .................
Jon C. Hansen

Hayden Wheels

Offline ricardo1967

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 570
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: No full pass yet.
  • Your Engine: Alky SBC 400
  • Your Track: Brown County Dragway (Bean Blossom, IN)
  • Your Vehicle: 173" FED
Re: The boys from Kansas are at it again
« Reply #66 on: March 30, 2015, 01:50:08 PM »
If modern Jr Fuel can't tip the can, shouldn't it be called Jr Alky instead??  ;D

Offline JrFuel Hayden

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
    • View Profile
    • Hayden Enterprises Speciality Wheels
  • Your Best Time: 6.02, 236 mph, 1/4 in 1973 Div 3 TF Champ
  • Your Engine: SBC, Alky, 403 ci, Best 6.99 @ 190 & 409 Hemi
  • Your Track: Bakersfield
  • Your Vehicle: 225" FED NHRA Heritage Jr Fuel
Re: The boys from Kansas are at it again
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2015, 12:09:05 AM »
Again when the new nostalgia JrFuel was formed in the 80's, the idea was to make the new cars LOOK like the nitro JF cars of the 60's, and not cost as much to build and race. Also the new JF cars could not run the same combo as the nitro JF, because nobody makes a slick that you could smoke to 1/2 track, plus it seems all tracks use VHT, so smokers was out.  New rules were NO nitro [ pure methanol] , max tire width 12", 2 speed auto trans [ no Lenco] which means Powerglide, 3.5 lb/ci like the old days, stack injectors, zoomie pipes, and all iron heads and blocks. Then when some teams discovered the New Zealand made 14° & 23° raised runner iron heads the performance picked up, and because it costs about $20k to convert to the 14° combo, some racers suggested making an "A" and a "B" class.
I hope this clears-up some questions.
BTW isn't methanol a "FUEL" it's not gasoline , right ?

Jon
Jon C. Hansen

Hayden Wheels

Offline ricardo1967

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 570
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: No full pass yet.
  • Your Engine: Alky SBC 400
  • Your Track: Brown County Dragway (Bean Blossom, IN)
  • Your Vehicle: 173" FED
Re: The boys from Kansas are at it again
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2015, 03:18:02 AM »
Again when the new nostalgia JrFuel was formed in the 80's, the idea was to make the new cars LOOK like the nitro JF cars of the 60's, and not cost as much to build and race. Also the new JF cars could not run the same combo as the nitro JF, because nobody makes a slick that you could smoke to 1/2 track, plus it seems all tracks use VHT, so smokers was out.  New rules were NO nitro [ pure methanol] , max tire width 12", 2 speed auto trans [ no Lenco] which means Powerglide, 3.5 lb/ci like the old days, stack injectors, zoomie pipes, and all iron heads and blocks. Then when some teams discovered the New Zealand made 14° & 23° raised runner iron heads the performance picked up, and because it costs about $20k to convert to the 14° combo, some racers suggested making an "A" and a "B" class.
I hope this clears-up some questions.
BTW isn't methanol a "FUEL" it's not gasoline , right ?

Jon

Thanks for the education Jon!

Offline wideopen231

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1911
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 1/8 3.70@ 198 1/4 5.78@245
  • Your Engine: Hemi 526 ci alcohol
  • Your Track: Piedmont
  • Your Vehicle: 225 CMC FED
  • General Location: NORTH CAROLINA
Re: The boys from Kansas are at it again
« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2015, 09:30:03 AM »
Ricardo you now owe Jon 10 bucks. Hey baby education in America cost money. Running joke of mine and just seemed to fit.
Relecting obama is like shooting right foot because it did not hurt enough when you shot left foot

dreracecar

  • Guest
Re: The boys from Kansas are at it again
« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2015, 11:11:32 AM »
Only top fuel was required to smoke the tires. According to Ferd Roades as the head of the NDRA(before anyone else got involved) after it was taken from Tom Prufer.

1991 rulebook exerpts

Trans- cars may be direct drive or 2 speed automatic only
Tires- Max 11.5" measured across the top
Engine- Block and heads must be cast iron automotive "Small Block Type" Engine size limited to 410cid, Hemi-style may not exceed 360cid.
Fuel is limited to gas or alcohol only-- nitro is not allowed

The reason for a 410cid was thew availability of Iron 410 sprint car engines (after everyone went to aluminum) One could get injector to pan 410 for around $3500

Now when GG's/VRA got involved in vintage style racing(mostly NorCal) their RB was a little different.

OEM Small Block. No alloy heads allowed.VRA definition of "small block shall be all engines nationaly reconized as small blocks(wedge or canted valve engines) originally produced with under 366 cid.
Engine will be injected only , NITRO ALLOWED, Direct drive, Automatic, or manual 2-speed trans only
Tires Max 11" measured across the top

dreracecar

  • Guest
Re: The boys from Kansas are at it again
« Reply #71 on: March 31, 2015, 12:42:21 PM »
How about this little gem from the 1994 ANRA Rulebook
  "Intended for grassroots heads-up racing in slingshot dragsters. Not intended as a "test bed" for crossover technology from other forms of racing. Restrictions in place to keep cost in line and still offer highly competitive heads-up racing"

Offline tire wiper

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
  • Your Track: HRHS tracks
  • Your Vehicle: J/FC #723
Re: The boys from Kansas are at it again
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2015, 06:03:57 PM »
McKrays heads are 22-year old Dart Sportsman II OEM replacement type that a SBC cast iron exhaust manifold will bolt to.

Offline Roger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
    • View Profile
  • Your Vehicle: 125 inch Altered
Re: The boys from Kansas are at it again
« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2015, 08:55:56 PM »
Is that the same set of heads that someone said a dozen years ago that Bob has “hogged out as a life passion"? Give him credit, he can make some serious horsepower with those "C" heads.

Offline tire wiper

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
  • Your Track: HRHS tracks
  • Your Vehicle: J/FC #723
Re: The boys from Kansas are at it again
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2015, 09:00:17 AM »
Yes they are the same heads.