Author Topic: violent shake middle of pass  (Read 22703 times)

Offline LaneM

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Re: violent shake middle of pass
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2014, 06:03:04 PM »
okay another note I am wondering if this too had any effects..well first bill perhaps you have something here..on my trip from getting the ride to Utah when I unloaded it here I noticed some lines cut into my lionaum floor in trailer...yep u guessed it..it was from the ribs on the tranny plate bouncing around from all the bumpy roads...this is where I learned folks support dragsters..no one had told me this prior and I being a door car guy had no idea..I looked things over 2 or 3 times from the time I got home til first on track and never found any damage..I have spent time there at the firewall/mount and the tabs where not broken like they are but perhaps where cracked just hadn't shifted from running yet. Thought two..my very first burn out..rolled through water mashed the gas and way violent shake..rolled past light started backing up(no help guiding)then was stopped by guy watching cause my shake was so bad it popped chute on line and I was about to back up over it....well I knew the timing was wayyyyy done here but my buddy thought I should licence with a slower ride first then get used to it and go faster ..more timing..well needless to say that low timing I believe was my reason for shake cause I had water...well after that first run I added more timing and never have had tire shake at burnouts again. Well it is more violent around 800 ft which is where I tend to get out of it..Im wondering if perhaps that low timing on first pass/burnout which had huge shake if that what broke my tabs and now when Im running then broken tabs and loose motor is my shake down the track..the first 500-600 feet feel totally great..no shake issues just pure acceleration..then shake..it is after I shift when this all happens..well a lot of ideas and I am going to be on the phone tomorrow calling around and see what I can do to get this covered..Im going to unhook all lines,wires,chute body tomorrow and if after talking to someone if they want to see it now with motor in I can show otherwise by wenesday it will be out then figure it all out then..I am really bummed there are no washers on bolts in alum. and I don't believe Loctite was used either..well it is a great way to become intimate with my new ride hope to figure it out and am excitied to see what a full pass feels like with no shake.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 09:32:50 PM by LaneM »

Offline JrFuel Hayden

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Re: violent shake middle of pass
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2014, 12:00:38 AM »
Lane, if you are getting shake on the burn-out, you might be trying to make your burn-out too long. Just past the tree is plenty, unless you are John Force. BTW, if you stay in the throttle after the tires stop smoking, you could be hurting your converter.
Any way try Tim Moen, 801-231-9249, or Dean Averict [ phone ?] in Salt Lake. The important thing to find is a race car builder that has a chassis jig, not just a guy that will weld up your frame lying on his shop floor. You need to make sure your chassis is straight and true.

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Offline LaneM

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Re: violent shake middle of pass
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2014, 05:41:00 PM »
thanks jon I wrote that number down I will have to give a call..here is update..today all body is off ..belts that expire end of this month are on their way back to stroud for recert. I haven't found anymore issues or cracks the engine and trans will most likely be out this time tomorrow..another note..like I had mentioned earlyier I got this car from another guy who built her..he had claimed doing three passes in her and one at 7.29 in 1/4 at 195....I found a time slip from lebannon raceway in first of june this year just prior to me gettn it and it wasn't even close..it was a milder launch and slower 1/8 then topped out at around 90mph..could be a test..could've broke..now I suspect it shook the crap out of him and he got out of it..why I say..well when I pulled the wheels off they had no weights..I went and had them bubble balanced today and they both were almost a pound each off...a lot of stick ons now..they are hooiser 32x13x15 and with tubes,screws,two pieace welds its easy to see the balance issue.I talked to two of my buddys they say that is a common thing..is it?well maybe balance has been a lot of my problem all along...I know the tracks don't want clip on(nor do I)butyou do run stick on is that right?well I will have my frame checked when it is bare maybe this is a lot of it..I am loving all the ideas so thanks guys.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 06:03:59 PM by LaneM »

Offline JrFuel Hayden

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Re: violent shake middle of pass
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2014, 12:06:52 AM »
Lane, when I have GoodYear and M/T mount my tires at the track they put duck tape over the stick-on weights.  If you don't have tape on the weights, do it before you run again.
Again good luck finding a shop that can put your chassis on a chassis jig, and get it straightened out. The shop that front halved our chassis and set it up to run an early Hemi or SBC, he told me when he front halved the car Don Enriquez drives, he found the rear-end was in crooked. Don later said how much straighter the FED went, he always thought, "well it's a dragster, I have to fight the wheel", not anymore.

Jon Hansen, Jrfuel

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Offline PSweeney

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Re: violent shake middle of pass
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2014, 03:20:55 AM »
I've had the same problem but knew it was as a consequence of damage, just struggled to find it.  My altered got out of shape in the traps, I wrongly stomped on the brakes and ended up bouncing around and landed from a considerable height.  I hit the trans pan off the floor which wiped out the belly pan, broke motor mounts, and flattened chassis rails. 

I fixed all the damage and re-installed the front brakes which is what caused the issue.  I then had the same problem as you, vibration and breaking traction at 1000ft.  It turned out bouncing around had buckled a wheel and bent a 35 spline half shaft.  When chucked up, the shaft had about 2mm eccentricity.  I replaced the shaft and wheels and it ran properly again and I had confidence in the car once more.

If the pan in your car is so low it's damaged the trailer floor, you will almost certainly be hitting the ground in the shutdown.  Repeated hammering of the mounts will cause breakages like that.

With regards to tires.  Don't go adding huge amounts of weight to balance them.  Bubble balance is fine but balance the rim first and mark the heavy spot then fit the tire.  Rotate the tire on the rim to offset any disparity between wheel and tire balance.  Then add the minimum amount of weight to get them balanced.  I don't use tape, I prefer to silicone the weights on, tape always lifts for me.

One more thing on the new car.  If I were you, I'd go over the entire car and check out every weld, nut and bolt.  Check the steering geometry, play in rod ends / thread engagement, tightness of jam nuts, play in steering / steering box etc.  Put right anything you don't like

Offline LaneM

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Re: violent shake middle of pass
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2014, 07:46:12 AM »
more great advice..thanks a lot..I will be going over everything..it is a 180 wheel base for note..another note on it bouncing around and causing trailer floor damage..I have a dove tail floor so that does have it alittle closer to the ground mid car as it is when on level ground so hopefully it isn't hittn ground on the track and no scuff marks on tranny pan..my passes have gone straight with the exception of alittle drifting..my bad..due to not being able to see straight ahead cause of the ram tubes blocking my view..I am looking just to the side of the motor which tends to have my vision up front land between motor and rise in axel..works good as long as I stay looking at one side otherwise it thows me off but I do think I tend to drift that way alittle..I do need a lot my seat time to find my special spot. thanks again for more thoughts.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2014, 08:06:56 AM by LaneM »

Offline LaneM

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Re: violent shake middle of pass
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2014, 08:18:21 AM »
ok I was trying to add some pictures here it wouldn't let me said they were to big..how do I resize them to fit here is there a secret..ya I am not all that computer smart and I have a dumb phone..but I would like to show a picture here..thanks

Offline JeffV8

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Re: violent shake middle of pass
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2014, 08:33:18 AM »

Offline masracingtd1167

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Re: violent shake middle of pass
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2014, 02:52:04 PM »
Lane I race at Lebanon Valley ! Try and post some pictures of the car I might have seen it there .

Offline LaneM

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Re: violent shake middle of pass
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2014, 09:30:24 PM »
ok more update..first..jeff I am trying to figure out how to size and post..I went to the sizing site as was given here a couple posts back just don't know how to get them to come up..i will work on it..ok so Tuesday I got motor and tranny out..it kicked my butt but it is out..one thing that really took time was the three bolts that hold the convertor to flex plate..I got the nuts off easy enough but convertor didn't just come off like normal..so as to make sure I don't hurt anything..like convertor or flex plate(billit Meziere) Ifind out they are threaded in convertor as well..being how there is a alum. mount/firewall between flex plate and block it is dang near impossible to get a wrench in there to back them out..is this a common thing with high hp or is this just a fluke..I have never delt with this threaded before. well 2 1/2 hours later it is apart and motor is happy in the cradle,well as happy as a heart from the body that is..lol. So early this morning I call jw transmissions in florida to see how much to recert the bell housing..trans is good for two more years..62.78 and about a three day turn around..cool..I head to my local ups store..we box it up like a new born baby I get hit for 17 dollars and some cents for the box then want another 70 some bucks to ship it...woooo...so I start adding up..more/less 100 bucks to get it there..63 bucks cert..guessn 60-70 bucks back..heck there is 200-250...well I did what I thought was the right thing to do..call summit got one coming be here Friday ..free shipping..290 bucks..alittle more but its new..i am hoping to sell my old out of date housing for 75-100 bucks then I will be ahead right..ha ha..so my flex is due also..is the meziere  worth recerting or go with a new summit flexplate..I ordered a summit..will it hold up? As far as more damage I cannt find any just broke top two tabs and that ballast brace..tomorrow I will call parks guy to see what he has to say far as gears..convertor..and if he thinks tire shake broke my tabs..well I will try to post pictures soon as I figure it all out.

Offline LaneM

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Re: violent shake middle of pass
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2014, 09:40:55 PM »
one pic
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 09:42:51 PM by LaneM »

Offline JrFuel Hayden

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Re: violent shake middle of pass
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2014, 12:33:37 AM »
Real Nice looking racecar.
I have never seen or heard of a treaded converter, I wonder if the converter bolt holes are a little too small. We have always drilled out the bolt holes to 1/2" when using 7/16 bolts. Another thing we do is press-in nut certs into the flexplate so all we have to do is just screw the bolts into the flex plate, and not mess with the nuts. One of the reasons we do that is we want the option to change converters between rounds. So the chassis is simple and clean around the trans so we can drop the trans and make a converter change in less than 1/2 hour.
I carry 3 different converters in the trailer all the time, with different stalls [ rpm flash points].
What size [ dia] is your converter ?

Jon
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Offline rooman

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Re: violent shake middle of pass
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2014, 04:55:47 AM »
LaneM,
           is that a Cen-Pen chassis? If so you  may want to add a diagonal from the bottom of the upright just behind the mid plate to the top frame rail where the motor tab is located. Every Worm car that I have seen does not have the mid plate in line with what should be the motor upright and if that is the case with your car it may be the reason behind your broken motor tabs. Although the frame rails are beefy at .095 they will still flex a little in your "tire shake" scenario. Is the mid plate tabbed to the lower rail as well? If not that would also be a good idea. Fell free to call with any questions  317 852 4547

Roo
Yeah, I am from the south--any further south and I would have been a bloody penguin.

Offline LaneM

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Re: violent shake middle of pass
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2014, 08:38:05 AM »
I believe it is a worm chassis..it does have lower mount tabs as well..on the driver side the vertical frame support is about 2 inchs on the tranny side of tab..on the passenger side the vertical is about 4 inches on the tranny side..the converter looks to be 10 1/2 inches..I was told it is a 5500 stall custom made by a guy named neil chance..I just looked at it the marking on it says  the guys last name who I got the ride from and some letters that make no sence at all..to me anyway  The only tabs that broke were the top two all other mounts good...Ok I just got off phone with parks..he said I should try a 430 gear for here..also said sometimes U can have a floating rear engine tab on motor..like what is on front with clamps..however that can creat stress on trans.so if its not perfectly alined it can cause damage there.Well more to think about ..also said my tires are way to big for this elevation..I figured that it just hurts having to fork out a lot more cash for what I need to run correctly..live and learn.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 10:04:50 AM by LaneM »